Tree Improvement Project

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RyanCrierie
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Tree Improvement Project

Post by RyanCrierie »

So guys, how many polygons is acceptable for a tree? I'm seeing 100~ cited as common for a low poly tree on the net; with about 1,000 trees on a map, that means 100,000 polys will be eaten up by vegation. Or should we shoot down for 50 polys?
benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

Can we split the difference? Can 75 polys be done?

"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey
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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

So guys, how many polygons is acceptable for a tree? I'm seeing 100~ cited as common for a low poly tree on the net; with about 1,000 trees on a map, that means 100,000 polys will be eaten up by vegation. Or should we shoot down for 50 polys?

NewTree.x

100 polys is just fine

remember that if you define a LOD model like this

NewTree_LOD.x

along with your main model and make it a lower poly version again (say 25 polys) then the high level tree version gets unloaded at distance. So up close you have detail, but far away you save polys.

Thanks for taking on the tree improvement business Ryan. It is sorely needed.

Regards

S.
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spellir74
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by spellir74 »

I've avoided the maps, I know. But I have a comment about the stock trees...

The blue green deciduous (leavy seasonal) ones gotta go. Other than that the stock green proper ones are tolerable.

-----
Autumn red yellow ones would be trippy, for some maps. (And someday the ability to switch seasons for a map.)
test

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RyanCrierie
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by RyanCrierie »

Trees are damned hard to do right properly, due to their complexity. I'm still learning various methods used to generate trees...
Mraah
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Mraah »

Ryan,

Go back to this old post by Benpark ...

Sticks and Twigs .... tm.asp?m=1869746

I bumped the thread to the front.

I don't know if it's much help ... I figure you want to make some really high detailed models from scratch so it may not be of any help [:(]
Dean J
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Dean J »

This link may be of interest:

http://panda3d.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php ... 70aa4197e0

It's on the Panda3D site (not a bad 3d engine for any 3d programmers amongst you, provided you like programming in Python) and is a decent summary of available tools for content creation.  All of the links are interesting, but it is the first link - to a program called Tree[d] - that I want to draw your attention to.  I haven't tried it myself, but it may be worth a look.  Anyway, FWIW ...

-Dean
benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

That's one cool program (the tree generator). If we can get these into the game, it would improve the looks of the maps immensely.

They seem to be pretty high vertice models once exported. Is there a way to scale them without ruining the appearance too much?
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RyanCrierie
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by RyanCrierie »

I've got Tree D installed and have been playing with it sorta. It's very high poly, and each X file is like 2~ MB. Might be because of the animation though....It's looking like a good billboard tree generator though.
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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

ORIGINAL: Dean J

This link may be of interest:

http://panda3d.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php ... 70aa4197e0

It's on the Panda3D site (not a bad 3d engine for any 3d programmers amongst you, provided you like programming in Python) and is a decent summary of available tools for content creation.  All of the links are interesting, but it is the first link - to a program called Tree[d] - that I want to draw your attention to.  I haven't tried it myself, but it may be worth a look.  Anyway, FWIW ...

-Dean

Dean, you have been a goldmine in your precious few posts.

EarthSculptor:

Remind anyone of anything ... similar? [:D]


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Mraah
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Mraah »

ORIGINAL: Stridor

Dean, you have been a goldmine in your precious few posts.

EarthSculptor:

Remind anyone of anything ... similar? [:D]

Yeah ... I saw that ... and wondered which came first ... the chicken or the egg. [:)]

Very nice.

EDIT NOTE .... Or is this very bad? [:(]
benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

I'm getting ready to rededicate myself to "sprucing up" the trees. As my free time is severely limited for the next 4 months, this may be a slow process.

For our purposes, these great programs seem to produce models that are too high poly- is this correct? So are we stuck with the system that the game currently uses, and will I/we just need to make better looking textures?
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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

ORIGINAL: benpark

I'm getting ready to rededicate myself to "sprucing up" the trees. As my free time is severely limited for the next 4 months, this may be a slow process.

For our purposes, these great programs seem to produce models that are too high poly- is this correct? So are we stuck with the system that the game currently uses, and will I/we just need to make better looking textures?

Thank goodness you are taking these on board. With your artistic prowess we should start getting some nice looking trees!

My 2 cents

TreeD produces some really nice trees and if you get the settings right they are not too expensive (see SS below). The trick is to model the tree in planes which are then mapped to a whole branch via a texture (again see SS right corner).

TreeD can make virtually any tree (see the included examples), so it will be a great start, but you will need to do some post processing in MS3D or fM I bet.

The trick is to have a high quality tree model of ~ 200 -300 triangles and then a low poly LOD version ~ 20 - 30 polys. That will keep the frame rate up.

Regards

S.



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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

So the other nice thing about treeD is that it will basically make your LODS for you by just changing a few settings (see below)


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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

Basically stay away from the leaf subsection (turn leaves off as they are the biggest triangle eater [;)])

Amazing what treeD can do, a poor mans speed tree [&o]

195 triangles



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Stridor
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by Stridor »

For when PC+ goes to Afrika!

(only 78 triangles and not very good frond texture - but you get the idea)

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benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

Anyone tried this program?:

http://www.aliencodec.com/product_treemagik.php

I see that it exports .x files. There's a demo, so I'm going to have a quick look today.

"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey
benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

I think Tree[d] is the better of the two after a quick look.

Here is a first test of a tree. It's roughly 300 triangles. It's marginally better than the stock trees, so I'm still working on color schemes and such. I also am still tweaking them in MS3D, as fM seems to map the textures differently.

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benpark
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by benpark »

Same tree, changed .dds texture.

I did the output of this one in fM. It looks fine in the game, but the textures are odd in the fM program. I'm using the exports as Stridor has them listed, so I hope all will be well with lighting effects etc once I get the models looking better.

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rickier65
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RE: Tree Improvement Project

Post by rickier65 »

Ben,

How does the poly count for revised trees compare to the existing trees. I like the looks of your trees, and I like lots of trees and on map to help break up sight lines, but if there is a big performance hit, that would be a problem for me at least.

Thanks
Rick
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