Seelow Heights -- 1:100 000 Topo

[Mraah]

Mobius,

Along time ago you wanted a map of the Seelow area.

Over in the other forum (JTCS), a member by the name of Dumnorix provided a link to WWII Topo maps for Poland. Some maps bleed over into the Oder ... in your case, near Seelow. It's a German Map dating August, 1940.

Below is a screenshot at 100% of the Seelow portion of the topo map. I cut and pasted the scale in the bottom left from the original map.

The link is : http://igrek.amzp.pl/mapindex.php?cat=GR100

The link for this particular map is : http://igrek.amzp.pl/GR100_066

From here you can download the map yourself .... rather huge 31.2 Mb.

[Mraah]

Below is a shrunken version (8%) of the full size map I mentioned above.

Considering the size I had to shrink it and compress it a bit .... but you get the idea.

[Mraah]

For kicks and grins ....

I used Map Maker to build a 5km x 5km map around the modern day Seelow ... Alas, if only we had the CPU power to run such a battle!

[Mobius]

Wow! That looks real nice.
Why don't you make a couple of maps based on 2km x 2 km areas of this region?

[spellir74]

The Holy Grail...

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

Wow! That looks real nice.
Why don't you make a couple of maps based on 2km x 2 km areas of this region?

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

I wouldn't mind making 2x2 maps now but I don't know exactly where fighting took place ... I'll assume it was everywhere on the map we see above!

Plus, it wouldn't look right with the current models ... All the models need to be reduced to 1/4 scale ... The LOD model cutoff code would have to be shorter ... meaning, everything beyond 50m would be an LOD ... unless they have several LOD's ... like LOD1, LOD2, etc. The same scheme they use in flying combat games .... one LOD ain't gonna cut it anymore [;)].

Rob

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Mraah
Plus, it wouldn't look right with the current models ... All the models need to be reduced to 1/4 scale ... The LOD model cutoff code would have to be shorter ... meaning, everything beyond 50m would be an LOD ... unless they have several LOD's ... like LOD1, LOD2, etc. The same scheme they use in flying combat games .... one LOD ain't gonna cut it anymore

Terrain is separate from the models. You could make a map that is a reduction of the entire USA and it wouldn’t affect the models. Your houses and trees may be out of scale to the Rocky Mountains but not to the tanks.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Mraah
For kicks and grins ....
I used Map Maker to build a 5km x 5km map around the modern day Seelow ... Alas, if only we had the CPU power to run such a battle!

Very nice! We'll get there in time...

[rickier65]

Benpark made a map of the Ludwigslust area (base of the bluff in south central part of Rob's image).

A number of exhibits in the MM guide are based on this area around Ludwigslust (with some liberties taken to illustrate some MM features).

Rick

[benpark]

Excellent, excellent find. The information on locations of individual buildings is the thing that makes my day.

There seems to be maps for the entirety of Poland and some other portions of far eastern GE and far western USSR.

As for the Ludwigslust map, I can now see which buildings are modern, and which were present in 1945 with a bit more accuracy. I also see a rail line running through the woods at the hills crest that either I could't see in the GE, or no longer exists.

Lots of good fodder for mapping here.

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: benpark

As for the Ludwigslust map, I can now see which buildings are modern, and which were present in 1945 with a bit more accuracy. I also see a rail line running through the woods at the hills crest that either I could't see in the GE, or no longer exists.

If you translate the zeichenerklarung, or Symbol Explanation ... you can find churches, windmill's, etc.

Like you said ... lot's of fodder for the map.

Looks like that rail line still exists ... hidden amongst the trees.

[rickier65]

Rail line is still there. Photo interp can be difficult. Always helps to have other sources, and even photos at different time helps too. I used to do some of this in my previous incarnation though it was usually with a lttile better resolution than what we get with Google - and back then it was with hard copy maps and stereoscopes.

Rick

[Mad Russian]

When I was a member of CSDT we did a Seelow Heights package for CMBB. There are a complete series of scenarios that could be converted over to PCK. Some of them even have King Tigers in them, so we could use the model for the KT here in PC.

2 of the 3 game designers that worked on the CSDT package have PCK. What would be required it to join forces with someone to make the maps for the battle areas and then for us to convert them.

I can do a conversion with a 48 hour period, not the playtesting but the basic scenario itself, if I had the map. You guys are always saying it takes you only minutes to make a map using MM. Once the scenarios were done we could start talking about turning out a Seelowe Heights campaign.

CMBB used larger maps but as many of you know my battles are often smaller for the CM series anyway. I may have some that will already fit a 1km x 1km area. If there is an interest I could look and see.

Any takers?

Good Hunting.

MR

[benpark]

If it can wait until I get these trees done, I'm game. It might be a bit, though.

[Mad Russian]

Take what time you need.

There were 13 CSDT Seelowe Heights scenarios in the original pack. I think all but about 4 of those were done by either me or Warmonger. To my knowledge he's not done any PC scenarios yet but he is the best CM scenario designer I've ever seen. Whoever's in second isn't even close to Warmongers work..of course that's my own opinion.

I could possibly get him started doing some PC scenarios with some conversions of his older work. That would be an easy way to get him some experience with the game system too. He normally does larger engagements though. That could be an issue for the immediate future. Until bigger maps are available.

Good Hunting.

MR

[benpark]

Do you still have a link to those scenarios? I had them (and really thought highly of them), but I migrated computers and alas, alas no longer do they reside in my CMBB folder. It would be good to get an idea of the actions that you guys did.

If you want to give me a few areas to start looking into, I can do some tentative research along with testing these trees on a new map.

[Mad Russian]

I'll have to check and see where the battles will work best on a 1km x 1km battlefield. Then I'll do screenshots of the areas I need to be put into a map. If that works for you we can go from there. I'll do as much of the leg work as possible.

I think it was Mobius that did a King Tiger....and KT's were ALL OVER the Seelowe Heights.....now there's a thought...

Good Hunting.

MR