Panzer Command: Kharkov Features List

[Erik Rutins]

Kharkov includes longer and shorter random campaigns. You can't choose one that doesn't exist, but quite frankly, if you have one that has 100 battles and want to change it to 150, that's pretty trivial and the ones provided should cover the based as far as number of battles (for example, do you really care if it's 25 and you wanted 26?).

You do have to pick from the existing random campaigns though, but the net result is basically the same as the SP short/long campaigns. Each of these random campaigns is different each time you play it.

Regards,

- Erik

[ravinhood]

Same with the RCG. Pick generic Random Panzer campaign 41-45, 100 battles. Thanks for coming.

However I personally find those totally random, plain vanilla games really boring.

That's exactly what I want and I don't personally find them really boring. I want battles that never happened since then no one nor myself can complain about historical outcomes or this didn't work right or this isn't accurate, blah blah. Thas all I wanted to know is if the engine could make these plain vanilla totally random battles for me 100 at a time......thanks. I'm probably looking more at using a 48 battles set or around that since Erik says I can't pick something exact it would seem like 26 instead of 25. lol Too confusing.

These two statements:

You do have to pick from the existing random campaigns though

and

You can't choose one that doesn't exist

still have me puzzled. If it's RANDOM how the hell can you have PRE-EXISTING RANDOM CAMPAIGNS? That just doesn't make sense.


I know instead of all this confusion how about 3 or 4 screenshots Erik of how one setsup a RANDOM GENERIC CAMPAIGN....just plain ole vanilla setup with random units and 48 linked battles???

[Erik Rutins]

Ravinhood,

It's pretty simple actually, but I understand what's got you confused. A random campaign means that the battles within it are randomly generated. It's not historical, though it could easily have been since the forces involved and battlefields are chosen from those that were historically there at the time. But because the battles are randomly generated, it doesn't mean that you have a random _number_ of battles.

You have to choose from a provided set of random campaign "templates". For example, you could pick a campaign that only covers 1942 and has 10 battles or you could pick a 1941-1944 campaign with 50 battles. We hope the existing presets will cover everything you'd want to do, but if not you can create a new template yourself with however many battles you want since it's designed to allow that.

Here's what I think is a very cool feature too... you can create semi-historical campaigns. Pick a historical formation, set their core force and even include a few key historical scenarios they participated in on historical dates as "key battles", then fill in the rest with random battles. I think a lot of designers will like those options.

Regards,

- Erik

[ravinhood]

 or you could pick a 1941-1944 campaign with 50 battles.

 
Ok that's what I want a battle a month from 41-45 give or take a battle or two so 48 to 50 would be fine. If I could see these campaign templates I think I would understand more about how the selection works. I thought I'd just "enter a number in some box like 50 or 55 or 72 or 88 or 100 or 1000" and the game engine would generate that many battles for me no matter how small of a spread of years I picked. For instance maybe I want 50 battles in 1942? Is that possible without having to muck with xml files or inside the engine?
 
Now will I get core reinforcements after each encounter or hopefully you put in some instances where one would have to fight without reinforcements for one more battle or can't reinforce all your units before the next battle starts sort of thing like Renegade Legionaire Interceptor does? It's ok if it don't do all that, but, that would have made it a bit more realistic and immersive if there were times we don't get reinforcements and have to fight the next battle with what we have left from the previous one. Also, will I get a certain amount of support units during a campaign game like SP does it? Will I get to choose or will it be RANDOM?
 
Sorry for asking so many questions. I'm just hoping the game has nearly everything I think it does. It is confusing to call something random and then say it must have certain static elements in it for it to work that way like these templates. Perhaps I'm not sure what these really are or mean. I figured they were just things you put into the game for the engine to design ALL the random engagements I wanted and make them different enough I wouldn't see the same one twice in a campaign or at least not more than twice.
 
I'm an AI modder not a scenario or mission modder or map maker. I like mucking with AI's in games that let me, but, I never got into maps and stuff like that or creating a whole scenario. I think Adventure Construction Set burnt me out of that kind of modding....it's too much work. Thas why we pay you the big bucks to do all that for us. lol hahaha [:D][:'(]

[falco148]

Anyway, whatever happens with Campaign and battle generators etc, this game still looks as if its going to be pretty cool.
I hope its gonna be a success for Matrix and the parent company. As I've mentioned before many CM old-timers, (incld
myself) will be lookin real closely at this release over the coming weeks & months.

- falco. [:)]

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Ok that's what I want a battle a month from 41-45 give or take a battle or two so 48 to 50 would be fine. If I could see these campaign templates I think I would understand more about how the selection works.

The RBG doesn't guarantee one battle per month, but if you want to specify 50 battles that is fine. On average it should even out, you might get two battles on one day and miss a month though [;)]

I thought I'd just "enter a number in some box like 50 or 55 or 72 or 88 or 100 or 1000" and the game engine would generate that many battles for me no matter how small of a spread of years I picked.

The plain jane generic random campaigns will be able to do this. More specifc or focused campaigns may or may not depending on their designer's intent.

For instance maybe I want 50 battles in 1942? Is that possible without having to muck with xml files or inside the engine?

Once again yes for the generics.

Now will I get core reinforcements after each encounter or hopefully you put in some instances where one would have to fight without reinforcements for one more battle or can't reinforce all your units before the next battle starts sort of thing like Renegade Legionaire Interceptor does? It's ok if it don't do all that, but, that would have made it a bit more realistic and immersive if there were times we don't get reinforcements and have to fight the next battle with what we have left from the previous one.

Ok the system does do exactly this, however what you have described is pretty much a specific "scripted" random campaign and not a purely generic. I will try and explain the difference as well as I can.

The RBG/RCG all work with a "script". Now I use the term "script" here loosely as it is essentially a group of driving xml files, but you can think of it in terms of a script. Like any good script it is broken up into sections. There are characters, there is plot, there is setting, etc. The RBG script comes in 4 main sections (battle plans, unit structure, maps and setups) and was done this was so that subparts of the script can be recombined to make new scripts in the future.

Now just like writing a movie script, you can knock off something pretty quick and dirty but rather generic.

"A German Infantry Company Fights Random Battles 1941-1945"

Or you can start adding to the plot and add some interesting (but still generic) elements like

"A German Infantry Company Fights mid to late 1941 with some great initial success, but then has supply difficulties 1942, but rallies again 1943, etc"

Or you can make it really interesting

"The 1st Panzer visits the Ostfront! Follow the history of elements from this division from Leningrad to Wiasma, Moscow and Rshew ... "

This last setup can be really detailed with key battles interspersed with more "filler" stuff. Unit upgrades, etc.

Now obviously it is relatively easy to make a generic script and quite a bit more work to make a really good specific one. The above are all just illustrative examples to make a point. The game will not ship with what I have just described.

Also, will I get a certain amount of support units during a campaign game like SP does it? Will I get to choose or will it be RANDOM?

Once again depending on how it is setup you will often get support units. The list of support units available to you is historically accurate (wrt to historical distributions given the date) and you often have the ability to choose between which support units you want, however you can't pick tigers in 1941 if that is what you are thinking?

Sorry for asking so many questions. I'm just hoping the game has nearly everything I think it does. It is confusing to call something random and then say it must have certain static elements in it for it to work that way like these templates. Perhaps I'm not sure what these really are or mean. I figured they were just things you put into the game for the engine to design ALL the random engagements I wanted and make them different enough I wouldn't see the same one twice in a campaign or at least not more than twice.

The system is pretty flexible. It may not be able to do exactly everything that you want (eg there are no random maps), and due to release date pressures may only ship with a small amount of what is possible RBG/RCG wise, however I know that Erik is planning to add more RBG/RCG content over time and it is also something that hopefully modders with some historical bent will take too.

I'm an AI modder not a scenario or mission modder or map maker. I like mucking with AI's in games that let me, but, I never got into maps and stuff like that or creating a whole scenario. I think Adventure Construction Set burnt me out of that kind of modding....it's too much work. Thas why we pay you the big bucks to do all that for us. lol hahaha [:D][:'(]

If big bucks = $0 then you are right. [:D] That is why when people post very negative comments it can be extremely disheartening [:(] If I was getting big bucks it would all be water off a ducks back.

Seriously modding in PCK is really easy. There is even a random campaign editor to allow you to make you own random campaign "scripts" pretty easily. There is still a bit of messing around in xmls required, but not as much as you may think. The game will have extensive documentation as a separate pdf file which explains RBG/RCG operation inside and out.

Regards

Stridor (aka Laryngoscope - don't ask!)

[Stridor]

I just wanted to point out (after reading the above) that you are not required to write your *own* RB/RC scripts to make a random battle/campaign (although of course you can if you want [:)]). You simply select them in the generator prior to building the random battle / campaign. The "script" will let you know beforehand just what it is that it is going to build for you.

Due to the random nature of the build process a script will not be built the same way twice and even a basic script can have really divergent output behavior.

If it helps think of them as a type of "meta-scenario" (for battles) or "meta-campaign" (for campaigns).

Boy I hope this all helps ... and hasn't just confused you even more [:-]

[ravinhood]

Yep that last long post helped a great deal. I finally understand it now and those applications to creating a random campaign will work just fine. I even like some of the ideas that I can add a little or a lot to the script. I always liked how Renegade Legionaire Interceptor did it when most of my ships had been all shot up and it MADE me do another mission before I could repair ALL of them or ANY of them sometimes. Those were nail biting experinces and that would be kewl to add to a campaign I think. Every battle wasn't always maximum reinforced and supplied I'm sure.
 
Thanks for the patience of my questions. You can see when I'm REEEELY interested in a game though I take time to find out about it as much as I can an in detail. I should have been an investigative reporter, but, well I don't really like the way the pry into peoples lives.
 
I'll be buying it for sure now. I'm such a nut for anything random even if it doesn't have everything I want it will have random and not some same ole simulation of the same ole simulation over n over.
 
Hey Everybody I'm Ravinhood and I endorse this ad. hehe

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'll be buying it for sure now. I'm such a nut for anything random even if it doesn't have everything I want it will have random and not some same ole simulation of the same ole simulation over n over.

Hey Everybody I'm Ravinhood and I endorse this ad. hehe

I thought you were tired of WW2 games? [;)] [:D] [X(]

[ravinhood]

I am the SIMULATION ones...this is a RANDOM one so that's different.

[freeboy]

Erik, Campaigns sound great, what about streangth levels to set one side defensive or offensive oriented? I think it would be interesting to set a resonable ratio of strength too.. thanks

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Erik, Campaigns sound great, what about streangth levels to set one side defensive or offensive oriented? I think it would be interesting to set a resonable ratio of strength too.. thanks

All that and more is possible with the RCG design.

See my prior long chats with Ravinhood [;)]

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Stridor

Seriously modding in PCK is really easy. There is even a random campaign editor to allow you to make you own random campaign "scripts" pretty easily. There is still a bit of messing around in xmls required, but not as much as you may think. The game will have extensive documentation as a separate pdf file which explains RBG/RCG operation inside and out.

Regards

Stridor (aka Laryngoscope - don't ask!)

Stridor,

I can't wait to read the documentaion about scripts!! I have an idea and I'm wondering if the design will alllow it ....

In my mind, a core force is larger than what we have during a battle, ie company size. A core force should be an entire division, brigade, regiment, battalion. The forces we select for a battle are pulled out of the core forces and those not selected are available in the next battle and still retain their experience, medals, etc. This way, you can have several small battles representing elements of your coreforce (company size). Perhaps having 5 battles in one day of campaign time.

So, instead of having to set how battles to fight for the entire campaign, you would set how many campaigns you want to play, subdividing those camps into how many battles per camp you want to play.

I hope I made sense, I can get longwinded and have no point at all .

EDIT NOTE : Basically, I'm using the campaign design idea of John Tiller's Campaign Series and making it 3D, albeit on a much smaller scale but with the "big picture" included.

Thanks,
Rob

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Mraah

ORIGINAL: Stridor

Seriously modding in PCK is really easy. There is even a random campaign editor to allow you to make you own random campaign "scripts" pretty easily. There is still a bit of messing around in xmls required, but not as much as you may think. The game will have extensive documentation as a separate pdf file which explains RBG/RCG operation inside and out.

Regards

Stridor (aka Laryngoscope - don't ask!)

Stridor,

I can't wait to read the documentaion about scripts!! I have an idea and I'm wondering if the design will alllow it ....

In my mind, a core force is larger than what we have during a battle, ie company size. A core force should be an entire division, brigade, regiment, battalion. The forces we select for a battle are pulled out of the core forces and those not selected are available in the next battle and still retain their experience, medals, etc. This way, you can have several small battles representing elements of your coreforce (company size). Perhaps having 5 battles in one day of campaign time.

So, instead of having to set how battles to fight for the entire campaign, you would set how many campaigns you want to play, subdividing those camps into how many battles per camp you want to play.

I hope I made sense, I can get longwinded and have no point at all .

EDIT NOTE : Basically, I'm using the campaign design idea of John Tiller's Campaign Series and making it 3D, albeit on a much smaller scale but with the "big picture" included.

Thanks,
Rob

Rob, thanks for your interest.

There are things that the Random Campaign engine can do and things it can't. I am not sure exactly what you are trying to do so I am not 100% sure that it will be possible.

There are things that the PCK engine itself can do and can not.

The PCK engine really needs to keep the core forces together during a campaign. However all is not lost for your idea. It would be possible to define a huge core which follows you through the random campaign. The *currently operational* parts of this core can be defined available at turn 1 for a given random campaign battle, it is possible to define the remainder of the core forces as reinforcements with a deployment time so long, as to not be effectively available for the current battle. This way your entire core is "kept synchronous" throughout the campaign, but only small portions of it actually fight at any one time. The RCG system allows for this and also allows for your "many smaller campaigns in one" concept. In fact if you wanted you could even design a campaign in which you changed sides during the course of it, although quite why you would want to beats me ????

Regards

Stridor

[Staggerwing]

In fact if you wanted you could even design a campaign in which you changed sides during the course of it, although quite why you would want to beats me ????

If the game were modded for Italy you could go from fighting Allied opponents in
one mission to fighting Germans in the next as happened in 1943. It would require
both sides to have the Italian units 'available' for the appropriate switch time.
If the actual change over were truly random then the Italian player would never know
when to expect it. Could be fun.

[Erik Rutins]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Random Campaign Generator is quite new - it's the final feature added to the game. As such, we're still exploring its limits ourselves and I think this is probably the #1 area where we'll add some additional content post-release.

Regards,

- Erik

[freeboy]

Erik, sorry if this was discussed.. Can we have timed and randomed reinforcements?

[Erik Rutins]

Yes. There are two values that affect reinforcement entry:

1. Earliest turn the reinforcement can show up
2. Probability of showing up on any given turn, it starts checking on the earliest turn it can come in and checks at the start of every turn thereafter.

So if you set a reinforcement to Turn 10, 100% then it's a guaranteed, timed reinforcement. You could also set it to Turn 1, 5% and it would be pretty darn random, or Turn 15, 25% and so on.

Regards,

- Erik

[freeboy]

this is great actually having two games coming from Matrix that are not only ones I anticipate purchasing but having on the HD for some time.. ?
I am doing some traveling .. will my discount for having winter storm last awhile?

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes. There are two values that affect reinforcement entry:

1. Earliest turn the reinforcement can show up
2. Probability of showing up on any given turn, it starts checking on the earliest turn it can come in and checks at the start of every turn thereafter.

So if you set a reinforcement to Turn 10, 100% then it's a guaranteed, timed reinforcement. You could also set it to Turn 1, 5% and it would be pretty darn random, or Turn 15, 25% and so on.

Regards,

- Erik

OK - How about setting it with 5% on T1 but increasing the probably to 50% T8.

Can the same unit have increasing probability of arriving?

Also, since I"m asking questions, I have both desktop and laptop (for on the road times). As far as system requirements, if my laptop can play the demo for PC:OWS, will it be able to play PCK? I know I saw the system requirements seemed to be the same, but does PCK use more system resources?

Thnks
Rick