Bug in 1.10v2

This forum is for official support and troubleshooting FAQs.
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

I found this:

Iraq campaign, "bandits" event. I selected the use of 2 AA random missiles.
The result was: 1 AIM-7 and 1 ALQ-119 POD!!!
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
StormcloudCreations
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:53 pm

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by StormcloudCreations »

This isnt a bug...we decided to allow the use of pods for both air weapon related events (which they defend against) and ground weapon events. It was a purposeful thing.
Derek
Lead Programmer of Hornet Leader PC
Mindtoy Games - Unique Strategy/Board/Card games for the PC - mindtoygames.com
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

Ehm... sorry, I don't understand. The pod isn't a weapon! It can't be "consumed"! :)
This is totally unrealistic.
When during the game you use the pod it isn't expended: you can use it multiple times.
Please correct this :)
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
Dan Verssen
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:16 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by Dan Verssen »

The idea is that pods can become damaged or malfunction in combat. Also, some pods expend flare and chaff canisters, which can be depleted.
-Dan Verssen
Dan Verssen Games (DVG)
www.dvg.com
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

Hello Dan ;)
The ALQ 119 is a jamming pod, it can't be depleted ;)
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
Veldor
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:32 am
Location: King's Landing

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by Veldor »

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

Hello Dan ;)
The ALQ 119 is a jamming pod, it can't be depleted ;)

In game design terms its called an abstraction. You could go on endlessly pointing out areas where the game isn't as realistic as possible. Once you addressed all of those issues (if you ever even could) the game wouldn't even be remotely the same game.

Why is it a random event that I get F-14 escorts or whatever it is? Wouldn't it be more realistic to have control over when/where I deploy those as well? Yet, in game terms, thats not the point at all.

And don't even get me started on the whole grids and zones thing.

Hope I'm making some sense here..
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

Veldor, I think it's sterile to confute every criticism I made to the game.
I respect your opinion, do the same with mine.
I write reviews of Matrix games from years, and I know "abstraction" (it's my work).
Still I think the good thing with HL is (was?) the realism. For the POD thing there is another thread that states they count as AtG weapons for AtG penality purposes: this is not an abstraction, but an error, IMHO.
Game balance can't be affected by such small things, and you can still use other means to change game balance, to raise or lower difficulty.
I thing a game can and must abstract, but the introduction of inaccuracies should be not part of the process.
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
Veldor
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:32 am
Location: King's Landing

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by Veldor »

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

Veldor, I think it's sterile to confute every criticism I made to the game.
I respect your opinion, do the same with mine.
I write reviews of Matrix games from years, and I know "abstraction" (it's my work).
Still I think the good thing with HL is (was?) the realism. For the POD thing there is another thread that states they count as AtG weapons for AtG penality purposes: this is not an abstraction, but an error, IMHO.
Game balance can't be affected by such small things, and you can still use other means to change game balance, to raise or lower difficulty.
I thing a game can and must abstract, but the introduction of inaccuracies should be not part of the process.

CptWasp,

There should be some way to loose a pod once added to your planes. Repect the game designers choice here.

I also do not think there is a need to nit-pick every little realism issue in a game like this. The above-average abstraction is exactly what makes this game what it is and so enjoyable to me. All the "Im very disappointed with this game" type threads are going to do is turn potential buyers off to the game. How is that helpful? The vast majority do not care about such minor issues (And if I'm wrong everyone please chime in on how much this pod issue bugs you). I find this particular sub-forum enjoyable and don't want it to turn into the WITP one where they are still arguing over ship stats 5 years later.

The best way to get what you want is to promote the game in the most positive way possible from day one. The more people that buy it, the more the effort will be put into improvements, add-ons, expansions etc. And thus far, from the amount of unique forum posters, it looks like we could definitely use more buyers.

So, for us sensitive fans of the game, please just leave out statements regarding the game being "totally unrealistic" and "very disappointing" and choose slightly less critical and absolute statements. Then I'd be eager to here any and all ideas you would have and contribute my own feedback accordingly.

With much respect,

Veldor
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

Hello Vendor,
I never said that the game is "very disappointing"; if you read the thread My opinion I tried to give my feedback in the more appropriate manner. Maybe my English isn't good enough: if this is the case I'm sorry, really. I love the Vassal Hornet Leader, I have spoken about it with a lot of friends of NWI, and I want to remember that the Vassal version has a only slightly different price. So I'm a supporter, and not an enemy of this game.

I have in my hands the review copy of this game, so I shall write a review. In doing so, I try to be honest with me and with the players reading the review. Now, I decided to wait some time before writing it, and to share my thoughts with the persons on this forum. I own a private copy of the Vassal version, and the original rules are downloadable from the official site of Dan. If you read them you will find no trace of the rules about the pods, and in the original game aircraft altitude is much more evident. I hope this will clarify some of my criticisms: I want only know the meaning of these new rules, because the original game was better without them in my opinion.

The other things are bugs, strange things happening and some suggestions; things that can be repaired or added in a patch. So I think the readers will appreciate more a responsive support (and I'm sure there will be one) than some enthusiastic posts. This is the meaning of Internet: we can contribute and give our feedback.

Peace :)

Luca
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
Veldor
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:32 am
Location: King's Landing

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by Veldor »

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

Hello Vendor,
I never said that the game is "very disappointing"; if you read the thread My opinion I tried to give my feedback in the more appropriate manner. Maybe my English isn't good enough: if this is the case I'm sorry, really. I love the Vassal Hornet Leader, I have spoken about it with a lot of friends of NWI, and I want to remember that the Vassal version has a only slightly different price. So I'm a supporter, and not an enemy of this game.

I have in my hands the review copy of this game, so I shall write a review. In doing so, I try to be honest with me and with the players reading the review. Now, I decided to wait some time before writing it, and to share my thoughts with the persons on this forum. I own a private copy of the Vassal version, and the original rules are downloadable from the official site of Dan. If you read them you will find no trace of the rules about the pods, and in the original game aircraft altitude is much more evident. I hope this will clarify some of my criticisms: I want only know the meaning of these new rules, because the original game was better without them in my opinion.

The other things are bugs, strange things happening and some suggestions; things that can be repaired or added in a patch. So I think the readers will appreciate more a responsive support (and I'm sure there will be one) than some enthusiastic posts. This is the meaning of Internet: we can contribute and give our feedback.

Peace :)

Luca

Well I suppose if your reviewing the game that makes you exempt from one of my statements though I did have more than one point I was making. For one I think its important to keep in mind the type of game Hornet Leader is suppose to be. I hate the term "Beer & Pretzels game" but you just can't get too carried away picking at the realism of the game or you change the whole feel of it. Some of us just want "fun wargames" and this is what Hornet Leader currently is. Its not a game where realism is or should be the top design critieria. Obviously it doesnt hurt to tweak things along the way where appropriate and feasible, but I do think its fair to say most of your criticism is around realism or what you perceive as missing features. There really aren't any notable bugs left in the game, strange happenings, and such.

Even if there are a minor few, it is far far less than any other game just after release and certainly very well within tolerable limits. At least as of the latest beta patch.

Of course, that is all just my opinion, but it is on the web and hopefully read by many and thus no less valuable than anyone elses review or no review..
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

ORIGINAL: Veldor
There really aren't any notable bugs left in the game, strange happenings, and such.

If you read the other bugs I have found you can't state that, really.
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
StormcloudCreations
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:53 pm

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by StormcloudCreations »

There still are a few little rare glitches here and there, but nothing huge or game-breaking, nothing that breaks game logic or makes it unplayable. They're the same glitch types that exist in 70% of Windows software ever published basically (and yes, I play a lot of games [:)]).
Derek
Lead Programmer of Hornet Leader PC
Mindtoy Games - Unique Strategy/Board/Card games for the PC - mindtoygames.com
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

Ok, if this is your opinion maybe I'm wrong.. but what about the problem I described here?
tm.asp?m=1596503
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
StormcloudCreations
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:53 pm

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by StormcloudCreations »

Even if the MIG-29 may occasionally not do the -1 thing, it hardly counts as "game-breaking". [:)] If it sometimes isn't doing the modifier, i'll look into it.
Derek
Lead Programmer of Hornet Leader PC
Mindtoy Games - Unique Strategy/Board/Card games for the PC - mindtoygames.com
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

My fear is that the problem is on all aircrafts... it happened with MiG-25 too, so give it a check...
I fear the bandit modifier is not really taken into account.
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

I think I'm right, something is reversed:

Banzai (AtA -1) against a MiG-21 (AtA +1)

Result: -2 !!!! It seems the MiG-21 modifier has become -1, and that a roll of 10 become a roll of 0...

Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
LarryP
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by LarryP »

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

Ok, if this is your opinion maybe I'm wrong.. but what about the problem I described here?
tm.asp?m=1596503

I have been playing the demo today and I am on the fence with buying this game. If you had it to do over, would you buy it? [&:] I know, pretty point blank but I have about 30 Matrix games and I know about patches very well. [X(]

You seem to have found a lot of fault (bugs) with the game, and I hate buggy games myself. [;)]
StormcloudCreations
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:53 pm

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by StormcloudCreations »

Most agree that for the most part, the "bugs" are very small, there are no big game-killers, and is fairly solid overall. This one won't need several large patches before being playable the way it was intended. [:D]
Derek
Lead Programmer of Hornet Leader PC
Mindtoy Games - Unique Strategy/Board/Card games for the PC - mindtoygames.com
User avatar
CptWaspLuca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:37 am
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by CptWaspLuca »

...you are ignoring the AtA and AtG roll thing and I feel this isn't a "small" bug. The game crashes, not very often but regularly (on my XP PC). Only to be fair ;)

Hornet Leader is a great game, about this most, no, I say all players agree.
Cpt.Wasp

Member of the NWI staff (http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/)
Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
(http://www.balenaludens.it/)
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39324
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Bug in 1.10v2

Post by Erik Rutins »

CptWasp,

We're looking into that report, but as you might imagine it's not easy to duplicate as it does not happen all the time.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
Post Reply

Return to “Hornet Leader PC Support”