Play testers for ETO II

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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

The Minors and PP rule came up when I made the "convoys" possible for Germany, Italy and the Balkans. When the minors hade very little to spare anyway, I saw no harm in letting Germany use some of their resources instead of buying minor units that wasn't good for much.

But if you think that there should be a limit, I can change it. Where should we put it? Half? A fourth? Since the minors often produce less than 10 PP's in a turn, 10 % would be a little pointless (literally).
gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

Olivier has a good point. And you too. Just leave the rule the way it is.

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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

ORIGINAL: olivier34

i just red the rules again. About pps, and regarding Great britain, it seems that all of the Canada, middle east and India PP's are part of the "british" pps but have to get to great britain by sea. Which minor countrys should keep most of his pps ? For my part, Belgium, Netherlands for exemple will spend all their pps for himselfs when at war...
ok, I play and email you the file.

Missed one aspect of your post. Yes, Canada, India and ME is part of Britain, and rules regarding minors in general should not apply to these countries. They can, as an example, research tech beyond level-3, pointless though it may be.
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

Olivier has a good point. And you too. Just leave the rule the way it is.

I'll leave it be for the time. But if some of you again feel that there should be a change, just say so.
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

Since I will be upgrading rules and scenario continually, those will change while you are playing. Rules changes you may adhere to in most cases, whereas changes in the scenario will only go to the version to be posted later.

I will try to keep you informed of changes by adding posts to this thread starting with "NOTE". When it comes to rules, check the text on HQ. Any views on the changes will of course be welcome.
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

NOTE: I have added the Bay of Biscay and the Western Approaches to the fleet screen and made some alterations to the Allied possibility to use air units over the North East Atlantic. You now need Iceland for that.

If you haven't started play yet, I can send you the necessary files to add this change.
gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

NOTE: I have added the Bay of Biscay and the Western Approaches to the fleet screen and made some alterations to the Allied possibility to use air units over the North East Atlantic. You now need Iceland for that.

If you haven't started play yet, I can send you the necessary files to add this change.

Can we get these changes after playing one turn?

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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

Yes, since you're at peace, and no territory has changed hands, we can. I will send you the necessary files soon. Just testing convoys first.
gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

from the rules concerning trade:

Trade between Germany, Italy, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece is now possible by using a ”convoy” between Chemnitz and Milan.

This is unclear to me. The convoy has to be between Chemnitz and Milan? Or between like, Chemnitz and Nis, or from Milan to Nis?

In short, is this for German trade to the Balkans, AND Italian trade to the Balkans?

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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

You're right. Quite messy. I'll attend to that in the rules.

In general all these countries can trade via the Axis Trade-box, but there's a hub in Yugoslavia, meaning that unless Yugoslavia is German controlled, only Germany, Italy and Hungary may trade.
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

There's now a small problem due to my addition of the Western Approaches and Bay of Biscay sea boxes. I got this flash of inspiration just after I had sent you all the scenario, but before Johan and I started our own game. I thought the improvement to the uboat war so great that all of you should have it as well. Therefore I sent you the extra sea nodes, sea edges, cities and map files.

Now, either two of you have not been able to fix the extra files in the proper folders, or I was wrong in assuming that this should work. Hairog's game crash and Olivier can't see the sea boxes.

I therefore, with the support of cpdeyoung, recommend that I will upgrade the scenario and send it out again. Then you all start over with exactly the same files.

What do you say?
olivier34
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by olivier34 »

oh ! If you think so, and if Gary is ready for that, we can start over...we are not in the middle of 1941 !! I won't change my AAR however! (I will try to do this same impressive polish defense !
gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

fine with me

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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

All right. Let's start all over. I will now send you a new scenario. Its the same as I and Johan uses.
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

Question: I was thinking ... maybe we should limit the number of sea areas a sea unit can traverse from 2 to 1? It would of course make shorter dashes impossible, but it would give a much higher realism when fleets are trying to intercept invasions. As it is now, naval units from all over the place comes racing to stop an invasion. If we have only one area, the defender have to be more prudent when placing his assetts.

The only problem I can see is closely linked to Sea Lion. If royal Navy is placed to stop an invasion, Luftwaffe could concentrate and pound it into oblivion. This without Fighter Command being able to respond, as it would have in reality. But I can surely come up with some rule to prevent this.

Ideas?
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Tomokatu
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Tomokatu »

But... but... but... historically, the Normandy invasion didn't happen until the Allies had complete air superiority.
 
Instead of making a house rule, it's a "real-life" rule that nobody seriously contemplates a vulnerable seaborne invasion fleet in the face of air inferiority or even parity.
 
The Allies HAVE to clear the skies of Luftwaffe first, or not invade.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction
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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

Yes, you're quite right, but I was refering to Sea Lion now, not Overlord. [:)]

What I'm afraid of is that the Germans will be given an easy way to either actually invade without opposition, or use the time intervall between the fall of France and Barbarossa to concentrate Luftwaffe to pound a Royal Navy that must be deployed to defend the Isles. If the game system would have allowed friendly fighters within reach of a sea zone to intercept enemy bombers, just as is the case when TAC-units go for ground targets, there wouldn't have been a problem. But they don't and that's my concern.

As it is now, the RN can lure in the Central Atlantic and intervene if Kriegsmarine tries to invade (which is another oddity that almost rule out a German invasion altogehter), but this is only if the 2-zone range of ships is maintained.

If we have a rule that no TAC-unit may attack naval units in the North Sea or North Sea Coastal Waters, without that the same or another TAC have first attacked a ground target in Britain, the Fighter Command will at least have the opportunity to intercept half of the German sorties and it will also give the Luftwaffe additional losses due to the more effective AA-fire from the ground in ToW. Even though RN-units technically are located in the sea zone, in reality they would be ready in the ports on the eastern side of Britain, covered by harbour defences and radar-directed interceptors.

Thus each naval attack must be superceded by a ground attack for the Germans and the British can no longer hide in the Central Atlantic, but must be closer, making RN a target for German bombers. A rule like this will have the additional effect that it gives the Luftwaffe the incentive to first batter out the Fighter Command. The same rule should, in all fairness, work in reverse when the Allies prepare for Overlord.

But I'm just thinking about this yet. Grasping for ways to get around some glitches in the system. [8|]
gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

Why not just add another sea zone, entitled 'Home Waters,' representing the coastal defenses of the UK. This would be beyond the range of air attack, but any amphibious assault would have to start from it.

Thus you would essentially have:

1) air strike range the same as it is now, with the land-based air units still able to strike each other across the channel.

2) any ships in the Home Waters would be out of range of continental bombers



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Uxbridge
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by Uxbridge »

Yes, I could probably cramm in another box if I place it over Scotland, but then Luftwaffe wouldn't be able to bomb at all. I want them to be able to fight Royal Navy, but not without also fighting RAF. But most of all, reducing naval speed to one area will greatly help to eliminate the annoying invasion problem.

gwgardner
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RE: Play testers for ETO II

Post by gwgardner »

rule clarification: upgrading from the level 1 infantry to the level2 motorized - does that have to be done at a motorized industry hex?

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