Soviet Forces in Sinkiang (CHS & RHS)

[el cid again]

Concur we are off topic. Also concur Chiang is sort of a Chinese Karenski. And even concur that KMT did not want to abolish private capital. It took Mao to do that - in his dotage - and it didn't work. China is in some senses really communist at its base: the communal living system of the village of the past was closer to theoretical communism than anything any Europeans experienced (outside true communes of couse). But China in its soul is merchantilist, and it cannot escape it. The China of the 21st Century will seek a sort of modern form of empire very like the one it had centuries ago - nothing whatever like the system the US sponsored post WWII. I expect - sooner or later - the world is going to have to come to terms with that. I even expect war - I don't think we really will give up Kodiak Alaska or Honolulu Hawaii - both on the "island chain" expansion lists - and I am pretty sure we will object to "control" of Sumatra, Luzon, Taiwan and Japan - all on "the first island chain" list.

FYI when a Chinese scholar says KMT was "Leninist" it refers to party structure, not communism. Nevertheless, I said what I did because I think few Americans would be comfortable if they understood we were supporting a Leninist party! [Meaning in the past. KMT was voted out of office in the 1990s, and while it may be reelected - it is the wealthiest political party of all time - it isn't anything like it used to be. I hope CCP copies it - right down to allowing itself to being voted out of office.]

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: treespider

At the start of our game the Soviets are not likely to have been in Sinkiang. Both Hsu Long-Hsuen and FF Liu descibe how "Governor" Sheng Shih-tsai "showed his inclination toward the Central Government." Shortly after the German invasion of the Soviet Union the Soviets put increasing pressure on Sheng to provide  them resources. This caused Sheng to move closer to Chiang and the Soviets were forced to leave the area. Hsuen then descirbes how later in the war in May of 43 the Soviets instigated the "Altai Incident" a rebellion led by a Kazak supported by Mongolia Units covered by Russian planes.

Treespider and I were both wrong. The Soviets were in control of Sinkiang and much of Gansu Province (which lies between Sinkiang and Inner Mongolia) - although not Southern Gansu - until driven out in 1944. They were involved later in the Ili Rebellion - but not in the same sense. Much of their control was via a pro-Soviet governor with his own troops - but there were also Soviet units and of vital import in various actions (from 1937) air units. Curiously, Moslem troops served on all sides - pro KMT, pro- Soviet, pro-independence (or simply warlordy) - and eventually also pro- Chinese communist. Some units changed sides, others were loyal to their side until defeated and/or driven out of the area. I have concluded that at game start Sinkiang is almost entirely Soviet command (but Chinese territory) - although in a Downfall scenario it would be KMT territory.