Totally Lost and Confused

[mrfeizhu]

Its Like riding a bike very easy to do once you know how to do, i got the game yesterday, and if this were a bike i be on the ground all the time, but the game seems very good, the map and every thing is great. This will be a very good game once i learn how to play.

[vonRocko]

You can try the manual, but you won't learn much. They have the worse manuals ever written.They use the same one for every game and much information either isn't there or it is obsolete.

[awbergs]

ORIGINAL: henri51
Another one: the tutorial shows how to recon with the air unit by moving it to a nearly enemy unit, but the manual says that air reconnaissance is carried out automatically. When I tried to recon by moving the air unit onto an enemy unit later in the tutorial, it was captured by the enemy...

IIRC, in the tutorial you actually move it closer to the front line, I think maybe one territory behind it. Then recon missions are performed in the area automatically by the game. From what I've seen, the manual is correct (in this instance). All you do is position your airbases close to your lines and the game handles the rest. And when you moved it to an actual stack, yeah, it just got captured.

But yeah, it's difficult to trust what's being presented to you between the manual and the tooltips. For instance, 2-star generals can't form armies, only 3-stars. And the manual says the number of "ribbons" (chevrons) on the unit card tell you the number of elements in it (but not really, it's actually 1 chevron = 2 elements), and the color of the chevrons tells you the experience level (but I have not seen the "bronze, silver, and gold" colors the manual says).

The best thing you can do is like you said though, just play that tutorial and the Tannenberg mission over and over again. Or dive into the main campaign like me, because I'm an idiot, and will probably make a massive mistake on Turn 20 that will kill me on Turn 80 because I was misled by some tooltip or whatnot. But those 79 turns will be a blast.

[Once Joey]

Thank You zakblood, that is extremely helpful... I am wondering how you also might have the AI setup?

[CheerfullyInsane]

It's not as bad as all that, certainly not any worse than WitE (or WitP:AE which in my opinion isn't a game but a second job).

Granted, the AGE engine takes some getting used to, and there's a lot going on under the hood but you don't need all the information in order to play well.
You can certainly optimize e.g. army organization by looking at every possible factor, but it's not necessary.
A little logic thought with a twist of historical knowledge will give you an idea of what you need.

But as others have mentioned, the best way is to simply jump in and see what happens.
The Tannenberg scenario is a must, and when you feel comfortable enough with the mechanics start a campaign as Russia, it's by far the easiest nation to get to grips with.
Only one front (albeit a very long one), and no navy to speak of.
In the end, acknowledge that you won't win anything in the first few games. Look at it as a learning experience.
Those of us who started strategy gaming with chess didn't win anything for a good long while (or is that just me? [:D] ), while we learned how all the parts work together.
Same thing here, except there's a lot more moving parts.

If you're coming from Civil War 2 or Napoleons Campaigns, the biggest difference is probably the command structure.
It's a lot looser, with army corps not being attached to any particular army, but simply attaches to whatever HQ is nearest.
In that respect it's closer to Pride of Nations.
If you're completely new to the AGE engine, C&C and leaders is everything in this game.
Yes, having a bigger army obviously helps, but it won't be much use if the commanding officer is out hunting deer in the nearby woods. [;)]
That, and your special-use units such as siege artillery and event cards. Those two are essential for the German player to get past the Belgian forts for example.

However, having said that I will agree that the documentation is...*ahem*...sorta lacking.
Not anything particularly new with the AGE series, I'm sorry to say.
Then again, since AGE does a very good job of patching up their games, odds are the manual wouldn't be accurate in a few months anyway (much like WitE).
The good news is that the mechanics in all the AGE games are if not the same, then similar enough for one to easily grasp the differences once the basics are down.

Trying to learn the system with something as huge as EaW is a little like trying to drink from a water-hose going full blast.
There's simply too much information to get assimilated in a single sitting.
What I do is split it up into parts, playing the start of the game 5-6 times.
First run is nothing but the ground units.
Second run, I'll add event cards.
Third, diplomacy gets added, etc.

If you have money to spare, a good intro to the system is Espana.
Much, much smaller scope and unit count, making it far more accessible.
(Not trying to sell anyone anything, just saying. [:)] )

@henri51.
Synchronization is done by pressing the Synch-button, then moving the HQ. All Corps in the area will then synch movement with the HQ.
Mind you, if you have two HQs and several Corps in one area, synching one HQ will mean that ALL the Corps will synch. You'll have to undo the movement for the Corps you want to keep with the other HQ.

[Gilmer]

ORIGINAL: henri51

The game ( I have it) clearly supposes that the player has played Civil War II (I have not, but I have played Alea jacta est, another AGEOD game and watched some CWII videos). Some critical parts of the manual are more or less unclear, in particular the parts about organizing armies, synchronizing attacks and other things, and the tutorial is much too short(at the end of the tutorial it says that there are more tutorial hints in the campaigns, but this is no excuse), and the manual was written by someone with a limited knowledge of English (my first language is French too, but that is another story). There is a lot to learn by reading the manual anyway.Knowing something about WW1 helps a bit too, but don't expect most new players to be familiar with the Schlieffen Plan or the abilities of the Austro-Hungarians vs the Serbians (they will have to find out the hard way...).

This is really too bad, because it looks like a very good game. There are a few very good video AARs on Youtube, one by The Historical Gamer and one by Pewpewchewchew, but they are not tutorials, and sometimes the players clearly don't know what they are doing, which is fun for a video, but not for learning the game.

There is an urgent need for a series of tutorial videos and/or AARs explaining the mechanics of the game.

What I did (and recommend) is to keep playing after the end of the tutorial, since the area of operations and forces are limited, just to learn some new angles. Beginners should avoid starting with the Central Forces, since they will have to fight a 3-front war against multiple enemies right from the start.

As far as complexity goes, it is my impression that this game is harder to get into than the most complex wargames(WiTE, WitPAE and HOI3), but that is just my own impression.

Henri

I agree about the manual. There were things that I was hazy on and went and looked at the manual and could not find it, and I have a lot of the Ageod games, probably all but 2 of them - the two are The Spanish Civil War and the Birth of Rome. I think a lot of it could be spelled out a whole lot better.

I did an AAR but did not really touch on the button clicks and I know that could definitely be useful. I'm willing to help anyone out who has questions about what to do.

[Gilmer]

One huge thing to know is the letters "E" "R" "T" and "Y" I believe. The first set I believe cycles back and forth through land units and the second set (t and y) cycle through naval forces.

That way you can find anything you need to find. I didn't find the Grand Fleet for several turns!!!

[Gilmer]

ORIGINAL: henri51

It IS possible (Charles Cummings[spelling?] did a tutorial series for Civil War II on Youtube): for example, videos on the menus, and creating armies and corps, videos on combat, videos on recruitment, and so on. It is "simply" a matter of breaking up the game into pieces. When you begin to learn Physics, even at the University level, you don't begin with General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

And BTW, the manual clearly says that there will (or should) be more scenarios and tutorials, which is a tacit admission that there are not enough. And also, after looking through the manual again, it is not so bad. Although there may be a few required improvements, it is well-organized and has over 150 pages. As an example of fuzzy explanation, in the section on organizing armies it says that armies can be spread out to improve defence or attack, and on the same page it warns that if an army is split into different areas, it loses its army status. It probably means that DIFFERENT armies can be spread out to improve attack or defence, but I understood that the sentence applied to a SINGLE army, which is wrong.Fortunately spotting a clear contradiction on the same page warned me that something was wrong, and after reading the section a couple of times, I finally caught the intended meaning (I think).In any case, the question of army , corps and GHQ organization is so subtle that it needs to be explained with examples.

One thing that I find particularly confusing is synchronization:does one have to press the synchronize button for each unit, or do all units in the same army synchronize if the button is pressed and an attack is launched. How about other armies and units in the same stack? Another one: the tutorial shows how to recon with the air unit by moving it to a nearly enemy unit, but the manual says that air reconnaissance is carried out automatically. When I tried to recon by moving the air unit onto an enemy unit later in the tutorial, it was captured by the enemy...

Henri

I have not really figured out if they all need synch button depressed, but I HAVE figured out, it does not matter many times and that even different nationalities will attack in synch. Corps especially. Sometimes 2 different armies won't synch but 12 different corps will synch no matter what army.

[Gilmer]

From the manual... on air battles. The manual basically said that air units need to be close to the front and that they perform actions on their own. Per turn they gain initiative points from 1-9. If they are in full supply and they are fully repaired and at full cohesion they will get from 6 to 9 points.

During the turn they will perform activities based on how many points they have. And how far they are from the front. If they are late war designs they can move up to 3 regions to perform an action. Earlier war, their range is as small as 1 and can go to 2.

In action this is how it works. Most people are keeping air units in the regions with their armies, and the air units automatically fly actions, mostly reconnaissance at first. Later, when you have fighters, they'll sortie to attack opposing recon planes. I really did not look to see if they were bombing to support land attacks, but in theory they should if they are sufficiently researched to be that advanced.

Once the initiative points are used up for that turn, they stop performing actions, so they could theoretically, if they have 9 points, could be, in late war 3 regions away from the front and perform 3 attacks on recon planes or 3 recon missions.

[Gilmer]

Most people think the air part could be fleshed out, because all you do with them is build them then keep them close to the front. Then they fly missions on their own within their own parameters. The only thing you do is move them with armies, and sometimes pull them off the front to replenish, resupply, and repair.

The air battle reports leave a lot to be desired. They don;t really tell much except how many planes started and finished and experience of the planes participating.