They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
It's been a fantastic battle so far! Well done, Nemo!
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Rebel forces are pulling back from contact all along the front. In the area of Weickert wood about 75% of the Rebel forces have routed and they are in hurried retreat with no effort being made to hold the Two Tops etc. A small Rebel force holds on Peach Orchard Hill while a very significant force is positioned on Apple Hill ( I count about 20 artillery pieces on that hill which means it is pretty immune to direct assault ).
In front of Culp's Hill the enemy are also withdrawing. I am cautiously advancing but it looks to me as though the enemy is retreating north THROUGH Gettysburg in column formation on the roads. This seems to suggest that he isn't just pulling back a little from contact but is going to pull back to entirely new positions. Is it possible that he is going to pull back all the way to Seminary Ridge abandoning Peach and Apple Orchard Hills? It would be a grave error for him to do so as he could most assuredly use those hills to position artillery which would allow him to hit my left flank very hard in the morning but if that's what he does then I need to decide how to respond...
a) If he holds the hills and tries to attack again I will simply hold, launch local counter-attacks and then, as the day continues on, I will seek to extend my left flank around behind his army forcing him to devote more and more of his force to defensive manoeuvring such that, eventually, the initiative passes to my troops.
b) If he withdraws to Seminary Ridge and lets Gettysburg fall into my hands then I believe I shall demonstrate significantly all along the front and look for weakness on the flanks but not go over to the attack very much at all. ( Same thing if he withdraws north of Seminary Ridge to capitalise on the killing ground between Seminary Ridge and the heights north of it )
If this were the real war I would consider the first day a smashing success, would consider that Lee has just lost the rail and road nexus in the area ( Gettysburg ) and unless Lee can smash my army I will win a great strategic victory. I would seek to hug him close to me and seek every opportunity for strength-sapping close-range infantry on infantry combat, whilst avoiding his cannons as much as possible, in the belief that, overall, so long as I can wear his army and ammunition supplies down without being destroyed myself I would force the Rebels to withdraw and lose the opportunity of winning the war in this current season's campaigning --- and since my forces will get stronger next year and his weaker that, for me, is a major strategic victory ---- especially since I can replace those losses more easily than the Rebels.
Legend;
Blue lines = where my forces are pushing forward right now.
Red Line = putative front line in the morning.
Red X = Where a reinforcing Infantry Division will close up with my forces and anchor my extreme left.
Green X = where the Rebel cavalry is going to appear from tomorrow. I must plan a little reception for them.
As you can see I've also listed the losses. Apart from my somewhat ill-advised use of cavalry in the morning ---- I hadn't realised that the Rebels got ANY cavalry at all so didn't see the need to conserve those troops ---- I think I've done pretty well. Since 4pm when the fighting really joined up Rebel losses have gone up from about 600 men to over 9,000 and those 3 Divisions he eventually committed to the fighting are in pretty poor shape.
In front of Culp's Hill the enemy are also withdrawing. I am cautiously advancing but it looks to me as though the enemy is retreating north THROUGH Gettysburg in column formation on the roads. This seems to suggest that he isn't just pulling back a little from contact but is going to pull back to entirely new positions. Is it possible that he is going to pull back all the way to Seminary Ridge abandoning Peach and Apple Orchard Hills? It would be a grave error for him to do so as he could most assuredly use those hills to position artillery which would allow him to hit my left flank very hard in the morning but if that's what he does then I need to decide how to respond...
a) If he holds the hills and tries to attack again I will simply hold, launch local counter-attacks and then, as the day continues on, I will seek to extend my left flank around behind his army forcing him to devote more and more of his force to defensive manoeuvring such that, eventually, the initiative passes to my troops.
b) If he withdraws to Seminary Ridge and lets Gettysburg fall into my hands then I believe I shall demonstrate significantly all along the front and look for weakness on the flanks but not go over to the attack very much at all. ( Same thing if he withdraws north of Seminary Ridge to capitalise on the killing ground between Seminary Ridge and the heights north of it )
If this were the real war I would consider the first day a smashing success, would consider that Lee has just lost the rail and road nexus in the area ( Gettysburg ) and unless Lee can smash my army I will win a great strategic victory. I would seek to hug him close to me and seek every opportunity for strength-sapping close-range infantry on infantry combat, whilst avoiding his cannons as much as possible, in the belief that, overall, so long as I can wear his army and ammunition supplies down without being destroyed myself I would force the Rebels to withdraw and lose the opportunity of winning the war in this current season's campaigning --- and since my forces will get stronger next year and his weaker that, for me, is a major strategic victory ---- especially since I can replace those losses more easily than the Rebels.
Legend;
Blue lines = where my forces are pushing forward right now.
Red Line = putative front line in the morning.
Red X = Where a reinforcing Infantry Division will close up with my forces and anchor my extreme left.
Green X = where the Rebel cavalry is going to appear from tomorrow. I must plan a little reception for them.
As you can see I've also listed the losses. Apart from my somewhat ill-advised use of cavalry in the morning ---- I hadn't realised that the Rebels got ANY cavalry at all so didn't see the need to conserve those troops ---- I think I've done pretty well. Since 4pm when the fighting really joined up Rebel losses have gone up from about 600 men to over 9,000 and those 3 Divisions he eventually committed to the fighting are in pretty poor shape.
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John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Wow! What a slaughter! You're doing really well, Nemo. Love the AAR!
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nealjhebert
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:52 pm
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Well played Nemo! It looks like you've weathered the storm, and the Rebel army can't afford an even exchange much less coming up on the short end of the casualty count. I look forward to Day 2.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
It is now just before night-time and it looks like the Rebels are withdrawing all along the line --- and not just a little tactical withdrawal so as to be out of contact overnight. No, they are moving into column formation, turning their backs on me and marching away, something they would only do if they were definitely planning to travel a long way.
So, since I spy an opportunity to hit a few Rebel columns from the rear I have decided to push onwards and outwards. I've retaken Peach Hill, run into 3 units on or just north of Apple Hill and have troops pushing through Gettysburg.
I am absolutely certain that there must be large Confederate forces out there but my calculation is that I can rout his rearguard and then create a defensive line before his fresh forces can achieve anything decisive. Why take the risk? Because I want John to spend all of Day 2 in the certainty that I will attack ANY weakness he shows me even i I'm outnumbered and in an inferior position. Hopefully that should slow him down, make his attacks more tentative, make him keep his reserves larger and thus give me a better chance of surviving any attacks he may deliver.
So, since I spy an opportunity to hit a few Rebel columns from the rear I have decided to push onwards and outwards. I've retaken Peach Hill, run into 3 units on or just north of Apple Hill and have troops pushing through Gettysburg.
I am absolutely certain that there must be large Confederate forces out there but my calculation is that I can rout his rearguard and then create a defensive line before his fresh forces can achieve anything decisive. Why take the risk? Because I want John to spend all of Day 2 in the certainty that I will attack ANY weakness he shows me even i I'm outnumbered and in an inferior position. Hopefully that should slow him down, make his attacks more tentative, make him keep his reserves larger and thus give me a better chance of surviving any attacks he may deliver.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Well, there's really no need to say anything. 18 enemy cannon, General Lee, Longstreet an at least 2 Divisional COs have been captured or otherwise removed with a series of night assaults on the rear of the enemy retreat.
OUCH!!!
OUCH!!!
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- getty.jpg (197.73 KiB) Viewed 416 times
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
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ichris_slith
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:46 pm
- Location: Timonium, MD
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Oh My Gods. [&o][X(]
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nealjhebert
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:52 pm
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Wow! [&o]
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
After discussing it with John and with the feeling that in reality I wouldn't go hell for leather for a Confederate defensive position so long as I held Gettysburg, the crucial roadnets AND had inflicted more casualties than I'd lost ( thus achieving the three most imortant things from the Union point of view ) I think John is going to call it a day. So I've offered to play him again.
Now, since I don't know much about these battles - I know Antietam was suposedly really bloody and featured an assault on a Sunken Lane which didn't go well for the Federals and I have actually played 1st and 2nd Bull Runs - I thought I'd invite suggestions as to which battle and side might be interesting.
I kinda feel like launching an attack myself next time ( although given my ethos that obviously doesn't preclude being the defender as I always like to attack ) but mostly I'm just interested in something which allows a bit of room for manoeuvre so we don't just have to line u and blast away at eachother ad nauseum.
It may just be interesting to swap sides in Gettysburg and for me to take command of the Rebel forces too. Again, I invite feedback on what you guys might think would be an even and interesting fight.
Now, since I don't know much about these battles - I know Antietam was suposedly really bloody and featured an assault on a Sunken Lane which didn't go well for the Federals and I have actually played 1st and 2nd Bull Runs - I thought I'd invite suggestions as to which battle and side might be interesting.
I kinda feel like launching an attack myself next time ( although given my ethos that obviously doesn't preclude being the defender as I always like to attack ) but mostly I'm just interested in something which allows a bit of room for manoeuvre so we don't just have to line u and blast away at eachother ad nauseum.
It may just be interesting to swap sides in Gettysburg and for me to take command of the Rebel forces too. Again, I invite feedback on what you guys might think would be an even and interesting fight.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Well I'd say less WOW and more......your opponent is an idiot and this will be a hard lesson for him. Never have leaders swanning abut unaccompanied in a turn based game where FOW means that you can never be sure what is near.
He should hve realised this when you ambushed his artillery on the Haggerstown Road.
He should hve realised this when you ambushed his artillery on the Haggerstown Road.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Well, I think Idiot is harsh... I think that he just didn't think my guys would be up to making such a move at this time and if his guys had been 1 hex further north they'd have been utterly safe.
So, he had an oversight, yes but we ALL have oversights and if we were to be called idiots for such things then we'd all be idiots many times over ( me included ).
So, he had an oversight, yes but we ALL have oversights and if we were to be called idiots for such things then we'd all be idiots many times over ( me included ).
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Ok maybe calling your oppo an idiot was uncalled for but I was responding to the messages which were saying WOW and whatever which seemed to be over complimenting you on a move which was down to your oppo being naive.
I understand that being unlucky is part of this game but having leaders running about like this in the front line isn't unlucky but poor judgement. He must have an awful lot of Routed troops if he wants Lee there?
I apologise if I upset you. Keep the AAR going.
I understand that being unlucky is part of this game but having leaders running about like this in the front line isn't unlucky but poor judgement. He must have an awful lot of Routed troops if he wants Lee there?
I apologise if I upset you. Keep the AAR going.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Nemo, I think that Chickamauga is a good battle. It's got the two best matched armies (in numbers and quality), and even though the map is very hard to see through, it is a true test of soldierly skill.
Failing that, 2nd Manassass is always good with the 2 day battle, I know you've played it.
Antietam frankly is so difficult against a human, since they're not McClellan!!
Stones River is good, but the Federal army is shockingly bad quality.
Shiloh is also good, and it's a true test of skill for the Federal commander.
So, in order, leaving out Gettysburg, I'd suggest:
Chickamauga
2nd Bull Run
Shiloh
1st Bull Run
Stones River
Antietam
It was a great AAR, and I hope you are detailed with the next one!
Failing that, 2nd Manassass is always good with the 2 day battle, I know you've played it.
Antietam frankly is so difficult against a human, since they're not McClellan!!
Stones River is good, but the Federal army is shockingly bad quality.
Shiloh is also good, and it's a true test of skill for the Federal commander.
So, in order, leaving out Gettysburg, I'd suggest:
Chickamauga
2nd Bull Run
Shiloh
1st Bull Run
Stones River
Antietam
It was a great AAR, and I hope you are detailed with the next one!
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Hehe, he had about a division and a half worth of routed and disrupted troops [:D]. My assaults up to this moment have been pretty vicious. I couldn't figure out why he would have so many leaders in a stack but that's obiously the reason - it lets him turn disrupted troops into non-disrupted troops in a turn or two whereas it can take me 5 or 6 turns. This quicker turn-around let him keep his momentum better. There's a lesson there.
Ok, so true tests of skill-
Chikamagua--- Is this that "Wilderness" battle that you hear about where units were intermingled and there was a lot of friendly fire etc ? That one sounds interesting.
Shiloh - John has listed this as "a CRAZY battle"... Don't know why though, I don't know anything about Shiloh apart from the name.
Question: Would Antietam be worth playing a the Rebels since, from what you are saying, that's the most lopsided of the battles and thus would be truly difficult for the Rebels to do well in?
Ok, so true tests of skill-
Chikamagua--- Is this that "Wilderness" battle that you hear about where units were intermingled and there was a lot of friendly fire etc ? That one sounds interesting.
Shiloh - John has listed this as "a CRAZY battle"... Don't know why though, I don't know anything about Shiloh apart from the name.
Question: Would Antietam be worth playing a the Rebels since, from what you are saying, that's the most lopsided of the battles and thus would be truly difficult for the Rebels to do well in?
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Antietam is hard...really hard, but if you play the historical one then it is possible as the rebels, but the Union has to make some stuff ups.
Chickamauga - right, it's the one with all the forests.
Shiloh - Crazy because the Rebels have the early advantage, but they have to maintain it long enough to break through the endless forests and stop your reinforcements.
Chickamauga - right, it's the one with all the forests.
Shiloh - Crazy because the Rebels have the early advantage, but they have to maintain it long enough to break through the endless forests and stop your reinforcements.
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nealjhebert
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:52 pm
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
Okay, how about "Wow!" meaning "I can't believe that just happened"? John was obviously attempting to break contact figuring since it was dusk/night Nemo would be content to regroup his forces. Nemo decided instead to press his advantage for a bit and unexpectedly decapitated the rebel command. Kudos to Nemo; well played.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
ORIGINAL: nealjhebert
Okay, how about "Wow!" meaning "I can't believe that just happened"? John was obviously attempting to break contact figuring since it was dusk/night Nemo would be content to regroup his forces. Nemo decided instead to press his advantage for a bit and unexpectedly decapitated the rebel command. Kudos to Nemo; well played.
Yes okay I realise that I was a bit OTT and I have tried to apologise. I played these type of games back in the mid 90's in the ACWGC (Americn Civil War Games Club) which required players to do training. Part of the training was to play the first day scenario for BGG Gettysburg. So getting jumped on by US cavalry as you tried to come down the Pike in column, or if you left leaders unescorted were quickly pointed out to you.
Seond nature to me now but I guess we have a new generation of BGG players here.
I'd suggest you get on down to the ACWGC. Although most players have moved on to HPS games there are still players who will give advice and comment on the talonsoft/battleground games. Far better than me.
RE: They're OUR shoes DAMNIT!!!!!
ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Hehe, he had about a division and a half worth of routed and disrupted troops [:D]. My assaults up to this moment have been pretty vicious. I couldn't figure out why he would have so many leaders in a stack but that's obiously the reason - it lets him turn disrupted troops into non-disrupted troops in a turn or two whereas it can take me 5 or 6 turns. This quicker turn-around let him keep his momentum better. There's a lesson there.
Ok second attempt.
If a unit is ROUTED use a Divisionsl/Corps/Army leader to unrout. (on or adjacent)
If a unit is Disrupted then get the Brigade leader to stck with the unit. (collect all the Disrupted units and stick the Bde leader on them...try to get him in range of the Div commander)