World in Flames Download Version Now Available

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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warspite1
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....[:-]
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Centuur
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: kimsand
ORIGINAL: markb50k

For a game of this size and scope, $99 is arguably ON PAR with other huge grognard games that Matrix has released.  It was a steal when they released it (AND you got books!)

But people complained due to customs/additional shipping etc, and asked for a DL only version.

They gave it to you.  End of story, guys.  Sheesh.


What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us [X(][X(]

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations. [8|]

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.
warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response
Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
Peter
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....[:-]

There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
Peter
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: kimsand




What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us [X(][X(]

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations. [8|]

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.
warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response
Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....[:-]

There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
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Centuur
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response
Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....

Yes. You don't have any facts either which supports the way Matrix set his prices. You don't know the contract with ADG, you know exactly the same as the poster, which is absolutely nothing, same as the poster who gives his opinion about the price of this game.

I could turn all those question around to you, asking you for the details to prove that you are right. You can't do so either.

Therefore, it's Matrix who can react, not anyone else. You aren't employed by Matrix and I don't think it wise to argue about the game price. It's set and that's it. And anyone here might say it's too high and Matrix isn't therefore maximising profits out of sales. That's their opinion and we should respect this and not ask questions which can't be answered by you (for proving the price is right) or by the other person (for proving the price is wrong).
Peter
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....[:-]

There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.

Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Kimse123 »

Wow. Warspite Im sorry to have stepped on your toes there, not my intention at all.

Im not stating anything as a fact, im stating my opinion and asumptions,
which i hope im entiteld to, and as i also wrote, i have the deepest respect
for the guy WHO went through this massive task and made this game come to the PC.

I am dissapointed in MatrixGames, i would have loved to buy the game and relive old days
but i feel the pricing is extreme for a game, which if you compare it to practically
all the other games on the market lack in a very important feature it has no AI.

I was a Alpha/beta tester on the first installment of Computer WIF, and ive followed this
game regularly since then.

BUT despite all this, i would have bought it supported it and played it, staying with the community
and Watch the game mature through patches IF it was priced in just an acceptable pricerange.

Be cool, Be nice and stay friends.
Beware of what you ask, you might get it answered
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur



Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....

Yes. You don't have any facts either which supports the way Matrix set his prices. You don't know the contract with ADG, you know exactly the same as the poster, which is absolutely nothing, same as the poster who gives his opinion about the price of this game.

I could turn all those question around to you, asking you for the details to prove that you are right. You can't do so either.

Therefore, it's Matrix who can react, not anyone else. You aren't employed by Matrix and I don't think it wise to argue about the game price. It's set and that's it. And anyone here might say it's too high and Matrix isn't therefore maximising profits out of sales. That's their opinion and we should respect this and not ask questions which can't be answered by you (for proving the price is right) or by the other person (for proving the price is wrong).
warspite1

Which means you have completely missed the point - I mean completely.

Please point to me EXACTLY where I have said at any time, that I know what the economics are, that I know Matrix have it right? I have said no such thing.

I have said that its for the shareholders of Matrix to decide what is right - they are the people with money invested in this thing, its their business, their right to charge what they want.

I have said previously, that I am happy with my purchase and that the game is worth the cost to me. I have said nothing about anyone else's view.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur




There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.

Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove [&:]
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: kimsand

Wow. Warspite Im sorry to have stepped on your toes there, not my intention at all.

Im not stating anything as a fact, im stating my opinion and asumptions,
which i hope im entiteld to, and as i also wrote, i have the deepest respect
for the guy WHO went through this massive task and made this game come to the PC.

I am dissapointed in MatrixGames, i would have loved to buy the game and relive old days
but i feel the pricing is extreme for a game, which if you compare it to practically
all the other games on the market lack in a very important feature it has no AI.

I was a Alpha/beta tester on the first installment of Computer WIF, and ive followed this
game regularly since then.

BUT despite all this, i would have bought it supported it and played it, staying with the community
and Watch the game mature through patches IF it was priced in just an acceptable pricerange.

Be cool, Be nice and stay friends.
warspite1

And opinions are fine. I hope you come on board in the future, its such a stonkingly good game as you obviously know. If the price is a bit toppy for them I would not encourage anyone to buy because of the issues therein - especially if solitaire is not "your bag".
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.

Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove [&:]

But why are you than stating that you want people who have a different opinion on this, to prove they are right? That's the thing I'm worried about. Sure, you don't say you are right, but by doing this, you are surely giving the impression that you are right and others are wrong...
Peter
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Centuur




Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove [&:]

But why are you than stating that you want people who have a different opinion on this, to prove they are right? That's the thing I'm worried about. Sure, you don't say you are right, but by doing this, you are surely giving the impression that you are right and others are wrong...
warspite1

No - they are two different things. I have read so many times in the last few months, on many different forums, about how Matrix should price differently. Fine - that's opinion - and hell, as a consumer why would I not want that?

BUT - and here's the BUT, we then invariably get onto the FACT - if stoopid Matrix only lowered the price, then everyone would buy and we would all be free to live a life of religious fulfilment.

That comment (which I may have amended a tad for effect) is written as FACT, but totally ignores economic reality, totally ignores that life isn't that simple and that its real easy to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake and tell others what to do - quite another to put your money on the line in running a company.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by FeurerKrieg »

I have to agree with Warspite here. I have no problem with someone saying "In my opinion this game is priced too high/just fine" or "I think there total revenue would be higher if they lowered the price."

The problem is when people talk in extremes - No one is going to pay this much! (wrong, clearly as some have). Matrix is going to go out of business!! (unless you can predict the future, this isn't a valid statement)

I think often people who say these extreme things are expressing an opinion, but their use of the language makes it seem otherwise. Some folks aren't native English speakers, so maybe that is a contributing factor. Other might just be sloppy with language and think that I'm being a word-(German political party in WW2).

So if someone says to me a statement that isn't opinion, I would be inclined to ask 'Really? How do you know that for sure?" Not because I think I'm correct, but rather I am interested in what information they might have that I don't that is allowing them to make the jump from opinion to certainty.
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by JudgeDredd »

Is Paulderyncks "statement of fact" allowable then because it takes the view of a side you agree with (members "whining, carping and complaining")?
99% of the people who objected said they'd buy the game at the stated price except they didn't want to pay the shipping (and possible customs) for the books. Now Matrix has accommodated them and unsurprisingly we now get the whining, carping and complaining from those whom nothing will satisfy...
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Is Paulderyncks "statement of fact" allowable then because it takes the view of a side you agree with (members "whining, carping and complaining")?
99% of the people who objected said they'd buy the game at the stated price except they didn't want to pay the shipping (and possible customs) for the books. Now Matrix has accommodated them and unsurprisingly we now get the whining, carping and complaining from those whom nothing will satisfy...
warspite1

Allowable? What? This is not a court of law...

This may be an internet forum, but it is still essentially people just having a conversation.

In any conversation you will have opinions and facts offered - and sometimes people will, unwittingly or otherwise, offer up opinions treated as facts.

People can have a debate on opinions ("I think the game sucks", "the books are brilliant", "the cost is too much with no AI"), people can argue over facts (if the source is in dispute ("Wikipedia states...." [:D]) and when opinions are offered as facts, people can challenge if they want to.

What is permissible on the forum is defined by Matrix rules.

As to your specific question, I do not know if Paulderyncks statement was 100% accurate - but a) my recollections from the thread are that it sounds about right - and Scott War confirmed there was one that said he expected to pay less, and b) it would be up to someone to challenge that statement.

Edit: Spelling
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Dabrion »

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)

I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)
"If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." ~ Georgy Zhukov
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by AxelNL »

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)

I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)

I think most of us copy rules booklets to have more than one around when playing the boardgame. You do it a bit more professional than I as I see from the pictures!
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)

I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)

I think most of us copy rules booklets to have more than one around when playing the boardgame. You do it a bit more professional than I as I see from the pictures!

Hi AxeINL

Maybe a dumb question but I am noted for that [;)] When players buy the board game from ADG throught the years are the rules all in English or can they be purchased in another language? Your English and centuur's is very good but how about other players from around the world that might want to play the game and have no knowledge of English.

Bo
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

To my knowledge, there are translations of the rules in German, French and Spanish. There might be more, but that's what I know...

Btw... Thanks for commenting on my lousy English... [;)]
Peter
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