Perceptions about New Patch

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battlevonwar
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Perceptions about New Patch

Post by battlevonwar »

Played 3 Games in the new Patch, 1 game is into '43 as Axis, I surrendered 1 Allied game so I will only say this much about that game. It really makes the French suffer they cannot move any units out of Africa or their Navy!

1st: I played another game as the Allied and the Germans are bombing France :/ I don't think this is interesting it seems like an exploit to me. You can stop it but the French Fighters should be set to a strategic Missions Turn 1.

2nd: Supply for the Allies in the Balkans is too high, I can't see the British and Americans fielding 50 Divisions in this region. They had issues supplying that many divisions in France! A location so far away from their center of Gravity would be impossible and as ahistorical as humanly possible to supply. Even with Greece as an Ally. I think France should be the "primary Location and Italy too for a 2nd front," which is predictable but reality.

3rd: Italy can be VERY hard to take if you use German Units. I think maybe a point in the game where Italians lose their will to fight would be Historical flavor and surrender all their units. This would be more historical looking but would throw the game balance into utter chaos and you would have to rewire everything. But I build 5 or 10 Heavy Units for Italy over the course of the war and they can hold a defensive anywhere. If the Allies want to KO Italy they should be EVENTUALLY able to do it just when, I can't be the guy who decides this. Game would be so impossible to gauge then.

4th: RUSSIA:

I don't know... I simply have seen her get cut into like butter but if the Western Allies push on every front I can see where things could get balanced, but I haven't run enough scenarios against the Russians to see if they're strong enough to hold out. I don't think they are. . . But I could be wrong against A Top 5 Russia. (I'm sure as many mistakes as I've made in my games I am losing the edge but if I were to Min-Max myself to death I could defeat anyone's Russia fairly easy)! This is highly subjective but it feels like at some point she gets hurt too bad and never recovers?

5th: U-boats are on the edge of being a little too weak to me now. I've watched them gain tech and they are working a little too hard to try to keep an edge and are useless in 1942. I mean utterly useless. I mean if you were to go ham on them and lose a Major Front they'd be useful. I don't see the Allies Sweating if they know what the Germans are doing.

5th:

French Defense I think I had the easiest France I've ever experienced, which started late. I feel like the French are weaker than they've ever been. I am pretty sure against any opponent on this forum I could take France out with under 100 Land HP losses, and 50 Air Losses. If I was on my A game...


Your Thoughts, Corrections on these 5 Points which I think are important of Course Italy can't be changed but regardless?

P.S. I think these changes would not ruin the game for the GENERAL pop and the somewhat more educated player base who have been in the community a long time.
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ncc1701e
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by ncc1701e »

By new patch, do you mean 1.00.19?
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by AlvaroSousa »

#1 Put UK fighters there? Sure they Germans can do this but then they take air hits which are expensive to replace. Or are you talking about specifically the 1st turn? The air sups are set to support.

#2 Where do you mean exactly? Athens is a big port and there is only 1 road out and it is port supply meanwhile the Germans have main supply. Albania is a 6 but there is no rail.

#3 If Germany can build that many units to defend Italy then the issue is Germany not Italy. It has too many units late in the game to spare. But I think that is where Allied airpower might come in. Historically within game mechanics the Allies should have fewer land units, but more powerful ones, and a lot more air. Most players just build land, land, land. WP2 will have specific factories for small shipyards, large shipyards, armor, guns, firearms, maybe.... supply. Not sure yet. This will restrict the builds a little more without forcing a force pool.

#4 In my latest experiment I increased Russia base experience +10% and their reserves +10%. I think the issue is German casualties. They push Russia to the brink of destruction in 1941 and they hold gaining troops. But 1942 blow them away. This shouldn't be the case always.... sometimes sure depending on many factors.

#5 Uboats have not changed. By 1942 The UK did have the uboats beat. Only the ignorance and entrance of the USA give the Germans their massive number of sinks. The UK said "hey we know what to do let us help", the USA said "pashaa we don't need your stupid help" thus 2nd happy time. My uboats are successful until ~1943. Then I have to really pick and choose. But you should be spreading them out to force the UK to guess where to put its escorts until they fill up every lane. Then it is just a mass attack and seeing if the PP count is in your favor. It also forces the UK to focus on convoys and escorts. I build usually 10 subs quickly to inflict the maximum amount of damage which isn't close to historical.
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battlevonwar
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by battlevonwar »

1: You could put the UK Fighters to protect French Industry and people do or the French but the 1st strike that happens on turn 1 is gamy... Not "gamebreaking." As French intercept turn 1... smaller issue but irritating for the French.

2. You can enter into Greece and Bulgaria and get enough supply for either the Russians or Brits to supply 10 Armies of any combination. (watched a guy do it with 4 Armor and 10 Misc other Units for the UK in 1942-43)

3. Italy is indeed stuck with those tiny Small Armies. She uses these on guard duty. 3-4 Heavies after Tech and some XP on minors to maybe transfer back home and defend. Germany has more MPPs usually later game than she has manpower if the Allies played right traditionally. Though I'm not seeing that as the case anymore. It's probably most profitable for the Germans to build Mechs/Tanks/Planes cause Infantry are manpower drains. The Allied ones are = to the German ones by '43 and on par in '44. Historical but ~ against an Elite German Player which I am not at the moment I can see Russia gets creamed so early recovery is tough.

4. Now that one can min-max the Axis to perfection if they don't make ANY errors hurting the Russians in '41-42 and holding on into 43 perhaps 44 is doable I think. I will have to see further. . . This means you're relying solely on the Western Allies to make their push to alleviate the pressure and having a strong enough Soviet Force to push.((Further investigation needs to be seen though after my game with Magic Missile and sveint is finished I will see exactly where the Germans are at with Massive errors) My guess is the Russians are a lot weaker but we'll see! The increases you suggest may balance that out? I think you see they will be required. I am really not playing my A-Game vs say Sveint and his Russians are still retreating into The Summer of '43. In the patch 2 years ago that wouldn't of been the case. So I am guessing the Russians need something, but what? (interested in your opinion and others)

5. The thing about your 10 Sub strategy for the Axis is that is going to leech resources from other theaters so it's a decision thing, plus YOU have to keep that U-boat Tech up or those things start taking hits.(by the way I loved your U-boat Strat it's just you don't make airproof U-Boat Pens where they can be launched from France, which I think is a requirement to make things more realistic and keep them in play in '43 as a true hardcore threat) The Brits have all the convoys they need in by Jan 1941 if they know what they're doing.(30+) You really got to put an effort into a U-boat Campaign and yes it forces the UK to pay up and you should but if it takes your opponent till 1943 to neutralize you... That means there will be no effective D-Day till 1944 if it works! I love U-boats I think like Strat Bombers they add flavor where you don't have to invade the continent I just wonder why people don't utilize them more often? My guess is that direct pressure is more effective than either?

(Strat Bombers are rarely ever used? Why, my guess being they don't hurt manpower maybe a -Manpower % would make them more viable?)

~~~










AlvaroSousa wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:42 pm #1 Put UK fighters there? Sure they Germans can do this but then they take air hits which are expensive to replace. Or are you talking about specifically the 1st turn? The air sups are set to support.

#2 Where do you mean exactly? Athens is a big port and there is only 1 road out and it is port supply meanwhile the Germans have main supply. Albania is a 6 but there is no rail.

#3 If Germany can build that many units to defend Italy then the issue is Germany not Italy. It has too many units late in the game to spare. But I think that is where Allied airpower might come in. Historically within game mechanics the Allies should have fewer land units, but more powerful ones, and a lot more air. Most players just build land, land, land. WP2 will have specific factories for small shipyards, large shipyards, armor, guns, firearms, maybe.... supply. Not sure yet. This will restrict the builds a little more without forcing a force pool.

#4 In my latest experiment I increased Russia base experience +10% and their reserves +10%. I think the issue is German casualties. They push Russia to the brink of destruction in 1941 and they hold gaining troops. But 1942 blow them away. This shouldn't be the case always.... sometimes sure depending on many factors.

#5 Uboats have not changed. By 1942 The UK did have the uboats beat. Only the ignorance and entrance of the USA give the Germans their massive number of sinks. The UK said "hey we know what to do let us help", the USA said "pashaa we don't need your stupid help" thus 2nd happy time. My uboats are successful until ~1943. Then I have to really pick and choose. But you should be spreading them out to force the UK to guess where to put its escorts until they fill up every lane. Then it is just a mass attack and seeing if the PP count is in your favor. It also forces the UK to focus on convoys and escorts. I build usually 10 subs quickly to inflict the maximum amount of damage which isn't close to historical.
boldairade
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by boldairade »

As a guy who attempted a fairly successful invasion of Greece vs a good player, I can attest to the point that supply is most definitely a major limiting factor as the Allies.

Literally every move I made it had to be a primary or secondary concern.


Personally I thought it was modeled very well.

Just MO though.
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Greece is port supply with a limitation. Then you have the mountains North. As the Axis you can defend with less and just keep the Allies there in a pointless position wasting time.

With the uboats yea your Russia Barb is weaker but the Allies are very limited till later in the war.

Of course players in World in Flames have gone ALL OUT RUSSIA and have a reasonable chance of success of KOing them.

There are the extremes I have to balance.

As for strat bombing.... There is a mathematical equilibrium. I think it is 3-4 bombers. Where each turn you can blow up an urban area into oblivion. The Axis have to react buying AA and Air Sups. But people don't do it. You can even exclusively target oil. So if the Germans overbuild armor they will also have a problem. That I know of most Allied players don't do this.

Tough to get it all right.
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boldairade
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by boldairade »

In the same game I waged a massive strategic bombing campaign.

You’d have to ask my opponent (Nirosi) but I thought it was fairly effective.

He had moved to the defensive, so he wasn’t really extending his PPs. Still, I was able to level entire cities.

Germany ends up in a tough position: they can use interceptors, but the Allies can force those interceptors to fight when they are banged up, which leads to a further axis PP bleed.

Also, and this is big: it’s LOTS of fun.


If course it means the Allies can’t bring as much as fast vs Germany.

But playing the game solely to win isn’t my style. I like trying different things.

I’d certainly consider strategic bombing again.
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by Nirosi »

I can confirm that Boldairade strategic bombing campaign was very annoying (to say the least). I managed to contain it at first at some cost for about a year, but once the Soviets started advancing, I could not keep it up and my air defense was grounded. AA alone will not do it... Even at 6AA, good strategic bombers of 1943+ with some extra experience will do way more damage than they take once the lingering effect is counted as well as the extra "pool damage".

I could see and feel the pain adding up... I could not afford it, but I thing that the Allies could... Basically, I had five front, Soviet, Spain with Allies, South with Allies (Greece/Bulgaria), Tunisia and... Germany. In some turns, it was the only one where I knew for sure that I did less damage that I took...
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battlevonwar
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by battlevonwar »

I have to think that a players resources are finite as the Axis more so than the Allies.

Greece is the gateway to Bulgaria and with that you can easily take Albania and have 20 Allied Units in the Balkans. I just had a game with this and yes the Mountains and Hills halt the situation but is it realistic? Could the Allies supply 500,000-750,000 men, 1000-2000 Aircraft and 1000-2000 Tanks in The Balkans on that transport system with Athens Harbor? No...

NO way...(at such a cost of Trucking/shipping/supply you would do little else) You can halt it but you have to post the same numbers in the Hills and yes it ties things up it's just a little bit off in my opinion and if you did the research it's pretty factual. The French Campaign post D-Day was strapped on Western European Transport/Rail system with a direct route from England.

You're talking a little Russia. Logistics is King and the Allies wouldn't expend it there. (for the cost return)

Just as the Axis run low on oil in Barbarossa the Allies couldn't do whatever they wanted... You'd have a lot of issues in this campaign.
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Re: Perceptions about New Patch

Post by ncc1701e »

battlevonwar wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:05 am 1: You could put the UK Fighters to protect French Industry and people do or the French but the 1st strike that happens on turn 1 is gamy... Not "gamebreaking." As French intercept turn 1... smaller issue but irritating for the French.
Yes Lyon or Vichy are not protected on turn 1.
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Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
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