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I have a number of Clemson DDs which can either upgrade or convert (to DEs) both on April 1943. The conversion looks much better than the upgrades.


Will the upgrade prohibit the conversion to take place? I have upgrades set to YES for everything. I do not want to have them upgrade and than find I can not convert them. I know I can turn that off, but in case I forget to, I am trying to find out what would happen.

Bottom line ----- Will the upgrade cancel out the opportunity to convert them?

If you upgrade you won't be able to convert.

ADM is right, and you may not have considered the APD option which gives you a Fast-Transport capable troop carrier that also has good ASW numbers. The Clemson DEs will soon be outclassed by the hordes of purpose-built DEs and PFs. And once the IJ subs are suppressed there will not be much for your Clemson DE to do.

Even for the amphibious convoys, those APDs can load a few supplies which unload quickly and are available for the troops ashore. They are also handy for bringing small units in or out quick in a Fast Transport which can be set up to extract the troops in another hex.

I also made the "mistake" in my current PBEM to convert a lot of my Clemsons into DEs. It is tempting because the Allies lack a powerful ASW escort boat at the beginning of the war and the Clemson DE has a nice ASW value and extended range that makes it handy to escort TFs.
I just took a look a the reinforcement list though and the thing is that the first actual purpose built DEs will only start coming at 3/43 and in regards of other escorts, you will not get all that many through 1942 that have a lot of range to boost. So you have to mostly make do with the ships that you have on the map at the start of the game for ASW escort duties until 3/43 arrives. Thus it may not actually be a mistake to convert them to DEs, but their usefulness will suffer as soon as 3/43 arrives.

On the other hand, the APD conversion has much more utility than the DE conversion. It has the same ASW value, but keeps the original range of the Clemsons, they can still be used for escorting TFs though. In addition they also have their own transport capabilities that can come in handy in multiple situations. In addition to the ones mentioned above I also tend to use them to supply islands that are very close to enemy lines and I don't have air superiority there. They can make a high speed run at night to the island, unload supply and then make it back to safety during the day without being spotted preferably. This already has saved me some islands that otherwise would have been lost or would need very risky supply runs near enemy air fields. The big plus here is that they will be useful in that role throughout the entire game and never become obsolete like the DE conversion will.

So in summary, the APD conversion can do everything the DE conversion can but it has more utility that makes it viable to keep around through the entire game. The DE conversions will get increasingly obsolete, but they have somewhat more range, that makes them very useful at the beginning when the Allies just lack a lot of viable long range ASW escorts.

+1 for APD conversion.

I have to agree. Plus 1 for the APD conversion....GP

As a newbie I was starting with following Kulls spreadsheet and it had no hint on making Clemsons into APD.
That was something I figured on after a week of battle and put a bunch of those Clemson into the shipyards to make APDs with a lot better anti-sub values, thinking they will be helpful later on in fast transport roles. It took 21 days I think but they started hunting whatever subs that was left around Pearl and made a difference when they came out.

The bonus of transport came later. I was tempted to make them DE but felt they didn't be much better subhunters.

ORIGINAL: clamel

As a newbie I was starting with following Kulls spreadsheet and it had no hint on making Clemsons into APD.

I deliberately didn't go into all the conversion possibilities since "personal playstyle" has a big impact on which ones an individual player might prefer. The APDs certainly have some nice features, but those DEs are very helpful in the early war. Besides, the most important criteria for me is "what do they look like in-game", and having all the different conversions in play at the same time provides a veritable smorgasbord of art....with the correct mod, that is!

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: clamel

As a newbie I was starting with following Kulls spreadsheet and it had no hint on making Clemsons into APD.

I deliberately didn't go into all the conversion possibilities since "personal playstyle" has a big impact on which ones an individual player might prefer. The APDs certainly have some nice features, but those DEs are very helpful in the early war. Besides, the most important criteria for me is "what do they look like in-game", and having all the different conversions in play at the same time provides a veritable smorgasbord of art....with the correct mod, that is!

You're so correct and I just tried out that conversion with some of them. You earlier told me on the debacle I created when moving a too big ship with that big CD LCU from LA to the Channel Island to do some thinking myself. The APD was such a think, for better or worse.
I thought I wasn't getting a grip on those subs around Pearl and wanted to have a try with some better ASW ships. Using most Clemsons to escort convoys from East US to Pearl since they have a low AA too. Saving the better AA DD-classes for crossing the Pacific, where they could strike aircrafts if unlucky. Then I want those around Fiji/Pago and such.

Always nice to throw ideas around and get experts to sink them or a small thumb up.

Great link on those shipclasses. Bookmarked it of course.

I'm still on the fence what to do with these little guys....

The current game I just upgraded all Clemson DDs and converted zero since many BBs survived the PH attack, I figured they'd be a good mix with the antiquated BBs during bombardment runs, the 2 rating for ASW is ugly but like all the torps.

My next game I may convert some but not all to APDs depending on what happens at Pearl with the BBs. For me those are the two options, I can wait for the DEs so that's not a consideration though I can see where some feel better with them.

I convert them to APD's. There multi useful....GP

SuluSea wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:58 pm I'm still on the fence what to do with these little guys....

The current game I just upgraded all Clemson DDs and converted zero since many BBs survived the PH attack, I figured they'd be a good mix with the antiquated BBs during bombardment runs, the 2 rating for ASW is ugly but like all the torps.

My next game I may convert some but not all to APDs depending on what happens at Pearl with the BBs. For me those are the two options, I can wait for the DEs so that's not a consideration though I can see where some feel better with them.

I would convert them to APDs and then use them as convoy escorts. When it comes time for supporting an invasion that has not yet captured the base, make an Amphibious Transport TF using the APDs to haul supplies/units and add the old battleships for fire support when unloading . . .

APDs are tremendously useful for capturing all those unoccupied atolls and dot bases to clean up the map as your main forces bypass them.
Don't think that's important? One player used the only remaining dot base in Japanese hands in the Kuriles (Shasukotan) where he snuck in some AV type vessels and flew in a whole lot of Jakes or other long range FPs and torpedo armed Mavis/Emily. Allied player never knew they were there. The FPs then struck a massive air strike on LOC shipping including CVEs that did not have CAP up (IJN subs were the main menace at that point) dozens of ships were sunk or heavily damaged and LOC disrupted for weeks.

Thanks for the replies all. Taking in your thoughts, I believe the APDs are the way to go as I'd get more multi purpose and more effective use out of them. This is important as we have to make due through 1942.


My standard bombardment is 1,2 or 3 days for atolls (depending on what's there) with the BBs then transfer them to invasion TF to soak up fire with AMCs and CAs providing main fire support as additional Bombardment TF pound away. Easy to find a Clemson replacement for ASW support as my main focus was Torpedoes on the Clemsons.


Have a great and blessed rest of the weekend guys!

SuluSea wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:54 pm Thanks for the replies all. Taking in your thoughts, I believe the APDs are the way to go as I'd get more multi purpose and more effective use out of them. This is important as we have to make due through 1942.


My standard bombardment is 1,2 or 3 days for atolls (depending on what's there) with the BBs then transfer them to invasion TF to soak up fire with AMCs and CAs providing main fire support as additional Bombardment TF pound away. Easy to find a Clemson replacement for ASW support as my main focus was Torpedoes on the Clemsons.


Have a great and blessed rest of the weekend guys!

Thank you and have an enjoyable and safe weekend.

You can also get the APDs before the DEs but there is something to check. The Wickes class DD can also be converted to APDs but they may have to go through the February 1942 upgrade first. If you forget to do that one before the next upgrade is due, then both upgrades will be done and then the Wickes class can't be upgraded to the APD. I do believe that the Manley class is the Wickes version of the APD.

RangerJoe wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:45 pm

SuluSea wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:54 pm Thanks for the replies all. Taking in your thoughts, I believe the APDs are the way to go as I'd get more multi purpose and more effective use out of them. This is important as we have to make due through 1942.


My standard bombardment is 1,2 or 3 days for atolls (depending on what's there) with the BBs then transfer them to invasion TF to soak up fire with AMCs and CAs providing main fire support as additional Bombardment TF pound away. Easy to find a Clemson replacement for ASW support as my main focus was Torpedoes on the Clemsons.


Have a great and blessed rest of the weekend guys!

Thank you and have an enjoyable and safe weekend.

You can also get the APDs before the DEs but there is something to check. The Wickes class DD can also be converted to APDs but they may have to go through the February 1942 upgrade first. If you forget to do that one before the next upgrade is due, then both upgrades will be done and then the Wickes class can't be upgraded to the APD. I do believe that the Manley class is the Wickes version of the APD.

Your post inspired me to do a little research. The Manley was a Caldwell Class DD and the rest of the WW2 Destroyer Transports Wickes and Clemson Classes.

You learn something new everyday.

https://destroyerhistory.org/flushdeck/ussmanley/

Yes you do....GP

SuluSea wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:39 pm

RangerJoe wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:45 pm

SuluSea wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:54 pm Thanks for the replies all. Taking in your thoughts, I believe the APDs are the way to go as I'd get more multi purpose and more effective use out of them. This is important as we have to make due through 1942.


My standard bombardment is 1,2 or 3 days for atolls (depending on what's there) with the BBs then transfer them to invasion TF to soak up fire with AMCs and CAs providing main fire support as additional Bombardment TF pound away. Easy to find a Clemson replacement for ASW support as my main focus was Torpedoes on the Clemsons.


Have a great and blessed rest of the weekend guys!

Thank you and have an enjoyable and safe weekend.

You can also get the APDs before the DEs but there is something to check. The Wickes class DD can also be converted to APDs but they may have to go through the February 1942 upgrade first. If you forget to do that one before the next upgrade is due, then both upgrades will be done and then the Wickes class can't be upgraded to the APD. I do believe that the Manley class is the Wickes version of the APD.

Your post inspired me to do a little research. The Manley was a Caldwell Class DD and the rest of the WW2 Destroyer Transports Wickes and Clemson Classes.

You learn something new everyday.

https://destroyerhistory.org/flushdeck/ussmanley/

I like to say that they day is not wasted if you learn something new.

I also read that some of the Wickes DDs were changed to APDs prior to the war so the February 1942 upgrades should not be necessary first. I will have to let someone know about that, just an editor change to the scenarios so it is nothing major.

BBfanboy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 12:51 pm APDs are tremendously useful for capturing all those unoccupied atolls and dot bases to clean up the map as your main forces bypass them.

This. APDs plus Marine Raider battalions. Always impressed me as an ideal way to employ those guys before they get withdraw.