Best Altitude/Tactics for Avenger Torpedo Bomber?

[s96825]

What altitude and tactics do you guys like to use for Avenger Torpedo bombers?

I don't get many hits with torpedos. Lots of flak at 5,000 feet.

It seems like high risk, high reward. Like, I lose a lot of Avengers but when they hit 1 in a million times, they do a lot of damage.

At one point, I loaded the avengers with bombs and set them to the same altitude as my Dauntless Dive Bombers. The bombs had a much higher hit rate but I am curious what you do.


I am playing Guadalcanal as Allies vs IJN CPU so its late 1942.

[RangerJoe]

If the Avengers don't have the torpedoes available, at normal range they will carry and drop four 500 pound bombs. Enough of those and your bombers will start fires and wreck the topside of any battleship. The 500 pound bomb may even penetrate CA armor. Against more agile ships, you are better off with bombs than torpedoes. But always escort the torpedo bombers . . .

[BBfanboy]

Torpedo bombers carrying torps have an attack profile that always lowers them to 200 feet to drop the weapon. You can set them any altitude you want for the transit and approach to and from target. To minimize AA damage, set them above enemy medium AA but below the heavy AA altitude. If you have had enough experience with your opponent you might also note what altitudes he sets his fighters and send your bombers 6K or so higher or lower than that.

[s96825]

I often don't encounter enemy fighters.

I am playing against the AI.

What would be a good altitude range that is above medium AA and below heavy AA?

I am encountering a lot of enemy task forces that are BB CA and DD mixes.

[BBfanboy]

I could give you my answer, but I think it is more instructive if you use the buttons on the top bar to look up the enemy AA weapons and check their AA ceiling. Then add 1000 feet because the ceiling is "soft" (weather conditions can sometimes allow for a shell to go a few hundred feet higher - a die roll simulates this). Anything below 75mm in gun size is medium or small AA.

[s96825]

I could give you my answer, but I think it is more instructive if you use the buttons on the top bar to look up the enemy AA weapons and check their AA ceiling. Then add 1000 feet because the ceiling is "soft" (weather conditions can sometimes allow for a shell to go a few hundred feet higher - a die roll simulates this). Anything below 75mm in gun size is medium or small AA.

A recent enemy task force I encountered had the Mutsu BB as flagship. Looking it up in the database, it is a Nagato class Battleship. It had small AA guns that ranged up to 4,000 feet. So using your rule and adding 1,000 that is 5,000. It has 25mm guns that range ~ 16,000 feet so +1,000 is 17,000.

would you recommend 18,000 then? Or would you recommend 6,000 to stay out of the really small guns?

[Yaab]

I use a lot of single xAKL ships as Allies in the early game. What I have noticed is when an xAKL is attacked by patrol boats, level bombers, dive bombers or torpedo bombers with bombs, an xAKL's AAMGs (machine guns) DO NOT expend their ammunition. HOWEVER, when attacked by torpedo bombers with torps, AAMG ammunition is often expended (mostly 1 point of AAMG ammunition is used). So, within the game code, TBs (Torpedo bombers) with torps, have an attack profile that still lets ships use their weakest AA guns against them, probably during the final run when TBs drop their torpedoes.

Also, remember that TBs flying with bombs have unrealistic levels of accuracy. I don't think the devs ever addressed this issue
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=330019

[s96825]

I use a lot of single xAKL ships as Allies in the early game. What I have noticed is when an xAKL is attacked by patrol boats, level bombers, dive bombers or torpedo bombers with bombs, an xAKL's AAMGs (machine guns) DO NOT expend their ammunition. HOWEVER, when attacked by torpedo bombers with torps, AAMG ammunition is often expended (mostly 1 point of AAMG ammunition is used). So, within the game code, TBs (Torpedo bombers) with torps, have an attack profile that still lets ships use their weakest AA guns against them, probably during the final run when TBs drop their torpedoes.

Also, remember that TBs flying with bombs have unrealistic levels of accuracy. I don't think the devs ever addressed this issue
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=330019

Thanks,

I am having better results now with the TBs. I think early in the game I wasn't tracking how many Torpedoes are left in the CV. I now send to port to reload the Torps.

I am still trying to find an optimal altitude to set them for transit.


BTW, I have one TF with 2 CVEs. 1 CVE has TB the other F4Fs. The CVE with Torpedoes ran out. The CVE with Fighters still had full torpedoes. I wanted a way to transfer the torpedoes to the other carrier. Couldn't figure a way so what I did was try to swap planes between boats! But the direct musical planes move made me go from like 18 TBs to 4 (remaining amount of space). It seemed like I lost some planes in the shuffle so I reloaded the save!

Is there a way to transfer Torpedos within a TF?

[RangerJoe]

Transfer torpedoes from CVE to CVE? No.

You can have torpedo planes along with fighters on each CVE.

[Alpha77]

. It had small AA guns that ranged up to 4,000 feet. So using your rule and adding 1,000 that is 5,000. I

Small error, you took RANGE instead of ceiling... rng is only for sea or land battles, ceiling is for air battles...

[BBfanboy]

. It had small AA guns that ranged up to 4,000 feet. So using your rule and adding 1,000 that is 5,000. I

Small error, you took RANGE instead of ceiling... rng is only for sea or land battles, ceiling is for air battles...

Yes - the database button in game shows the Japanese Type 96 25mm gun with a ceiling of 7K.

[CaptBeefheart]

I always set CV TBFs to 5,000 feet. I'll also normally have 10-20% on ASW duty, so any higher than 5,000 feet wouldn't be optimal for that. Could I mess around and figure a better altitude out? Probably. But since I play against the computer this works well enough.

Cheers,
CB

[JanSako]

When launching TB-armed-only attacks, i.e. with LBA (Nettties or CATs), I have been experimenting with going really high, like 20k+ or really low (1k or even 100') with the idea of avoiding CAP which esp above CV's is usually in the 10-15 k range (because the opponent will need to do CAP and ESCORT for his own attack wings).

going really low worked really well - small detection & reaction window for the CAP until DS came into existence and he also started keeping at least one wing on ~5k CAP height. If you get jumped by CAP at that low height, it is worse than the usual getting jumped by allied CAP The escorts though will often sacrifice themselves so the bombers will make the attack run (& get caught by the CAP afterwards), I imagine it is because of the time it takes for the CAP to deal with the escorts?

going really high does not seem to be that great - less flak in the pre-attack phase but because of the Radar, Allied CAP seem to always be able to get into advantageous position & the bombers on descent are going through the air combat zone.

Obviously this is with purely torp armed planes, bombs are useless from 20k up and going really low with bombs is against HRs in many cases.

Anyone else tried this?

[bigred]

BTW, I have one TF with 2 CVEs. 1 CVE has TB the other F4Fs. The CVE with Torpedoes ran out. The CVE with Fighters still had full torpedoes. I wanted a way to transfer the torpedoes to the other carrier. Couldn't figure a way so what I did was try to swap planes between boats! But the direct musical planes move made me go from like 18 TBs to 4 (remaining amount of space). It seemed like I lost some planes in the shuffle so I reloaded the save!

Is there a way to transfer Torpedos within a TF?

one solution is when 2or3 cve are operating in one area is to move the ftr to land or another cv then rotate in a new TB sqn the cve who has torp supply.

[RangerJoe]

Not that I know of.

[BBfanboy]

Divide the two squadrons into thirds. Fly one third at a time between each CVE until all the planes have been swapped. There is no guarantee that ops losses will not occur, but they should not be high because there would be no excessive crowding.

[btd64]

I think that the CVE is loaded with the Replacement squadrons. I don't think they divide....GP

[btd64]

A picture of the CVE showing the squadron would help....GP