Making the last Beta Official

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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BBfanboy
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by BBfanboy »

Someone raised that point years ago. The answer is that there were a limited number of hardpoints the aircraft could hang stuff from.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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Moltrey
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Moltrey »

BBFanBoy:

Do you recall the discussion last year or so about Cargo ships being able to transport Oil (assuming in barrels) and whether it was ahistorical (and considered a "cheat" by some on the forum)?

I am wondering if a Dev Team change to lower the percentage of total tonnage capacity for Oil on Cargo ships would be viewed as an improvement or not? In our discussion, some PBEM players use a house rule to eliminate the tactic. Perhaps a small %, like 25 or 50% of total cargo capacity could be used when carrying Oil Barrels.

In my research on the topic, I used W.R. Carter's Beans, Bullets and Black Oil book and found zero support for the WW2 transport of Oil in barrels on Cargo Ships. Refined products yes (Diesel, Aviation Gas, Gasoline, Solvents, etc.), but in every case I read, the USN was totally reliant on Merchant Tankers to ferry Bunker C from the US West Coast ports to various ports, atolls, bays, etc., where the USN Oilers would transfer it to their ships and then head back "on station" with their assigned Task Force.
What do you think?
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BBfanboy
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by BBfanboy »

Well in real life fuel for vehicles and aircraft was often in drums but in the game that is counted as supply, not fuel (because fuel is only for ships and HI). So if someone wants to waste their ship capacity and burn fuel to ship Bunker C - I say let them. The other trade-off is probably a loss of resources or supplies that are usually needed in the front line areas.
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Moltrey
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Moltrey »

BBfanboy wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:53 pm Well in real life fuel for vehicles and aircraft was often in drums but in the game that is counted as supply, not fuel (because fuel is only for ships and HI). So if someone wants to waste their ship capacity and burn fuel to ship Bunker C - I say let them. The other trade-off is probably a loss of resources or supplies that are usually needed in the front line areas.
Good point. I wonder if any of the devs could comment on if it was intended to be this way for balance reasons.
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Nomad
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Nomad »

You also have to realize that many of the small craft in the game use "fuel" but in real life they used diesel or gasoline. So I think it was somewhat of a balance thing. As an allied player I do not use the capability much at all, mostly for small runs to small bases to support PT and such.
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Yaab
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Yaab »

I don't think the devs gave a rationale for fuel as cargo in xAK ships. One thing that bothers me about this feature is the fact, that you can easily hit faster unloading rates of such ships by adding Naval Support to your bases. Fuel from TKs unloads slowly at small bases, fuel as cargo from xAK unloads very fast at small bases with help of NS squads. In my Allied games vs Jap AI, I house-rule myself out of this feature. Fuel is only for TKs/AOs to move around. Makes the games more realistic and gives the Jap AI a leg up.
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Xargun »

Can we get a setting when we load Supplies onto ships to NOT load fuel? We have it on amphib TF but not cargo. I use xAKs with cargo/liquid capacity to move resources and oil from places like Singapore back home to Japan and then load with supplies for the return trip - I hate seeing the 300 fuel being loaded on each ship. Not only does it move fuel away from where I want it, it makes the ship a dead ship if it gets hit by anything in combat.

I know this is late, but I just remembered it.


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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by btd64 »

Xargun wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:53 pm Can we get a setting when we load Supplies onto ships to NOT load fuel? We have it on amphib TF but not cargo. I use xAKs with cargo/liquid capacity to move resources and oil from places like Singapore back home to Japan and then load with supplies for the return trip - I hate seeing the 300 fuel being loaded on each ship. Not only does it move fuel away from where I want it, it makes the ship a dead ship if it gets hit by anything in combat.

I know this is late, but I just remembered it.


Xargun
Unfortunately your just going to find other ships for your needs. I don't think that's going to be fixed....GP
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Moltrey
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Moltrey »

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:57 pm I don't think the devs gave a rationale for fuel as cargo in xAK ships. One thing that bothers me about this feature is the fact, that you can easily hit faster unloading rates of such ships by adding Naval Support to your bases. Fuel from TKs unloads slowly at small bases, fuel as cargo from xAK unloads very fast at small bases with help of NS squads. In my Allied games vs Jap AI, I house-rule myself out of this feature. Fuel is only for TKs/AOs to move around. Makes the games more realistic and gives the Jap AI a leg up.
I checked up on the "fuel as cargo" rule again Yaab. The manual states that it is considered Cross-loading. It ends up getting loaded/unloaded at 1/5th the rate of fuel or oil not in barrels.
Last edited by Moltrey on Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GrosserKreuzer
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by GrosserKreuzer »

BBfanboy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:54 pm Someone raised that point years ago. The answer is that there were a limited number of hardpoints the aircraft could hang stuff from.
I also thought about limited hardpoints and it is a good explanation for the Catalina and Mavis. I wouldn't have asked about this only for these planes, that's why I also noted that I could see this as working as intended.
But in case of the Emily it is obviously possible to equip 4 bombs – this is done at extended range. However the Emily still attacks with only 2 bombs at normal range.

So I don't see any real world reason for this bomb load difference on the Emily, but on the other hand I would accept that "bombing with the Emily" is a scenario that is not used frequently enought to justify using development resources on it. It just felt odd seeing an attack on Port Moresby from Truk carrying more bombs than from Rabaul.
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BBfanboy
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by BBfanboy »

Fuel and oil load at a faster rate than dry stuff because they can be pumped. I am sure the fuel tank in some cargo vessels does not slow down the loading.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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BBfanboy
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by BBfanboy »

GrosserKreuzer, the size of the bombs could make the difference on the Emily. I don't have the info right now, but I am sure those four bombs are small ones.
Edit - I looked at the in-game database and it shows 2X torpedoes at normal range and 4X 250kg bombs as "reduced load". I am not sure what happens if there are no torps available at normal range - is there a larger bomb type available to load instead of the torps or does the game just load 2X 250kg bombs and thus have a smaller bomb load than the "reduced load"?
Maybe an IJ player knows ... :ugeek:
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Moltrey
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Moltrey »

BBfanboy wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:27 am Fuel and oil load at a faster rate than dry stuff because they can be pumped. I am sure the fuel tank in some cargo vessels does not slow down the loading.
We are referring to the non-tanker loading of Fuel, i.e., Barrels that get loaded on Cargo ships. They are considered cross-loads per the manual, thus take longer.
Ah, looking at my Port Logistics Chart (duh!) I see that CARGO is (un)loaded at 1/5th the rate of FUEL, so there is my answer on the speed restriction. Of course you are correct on the "dual load" ships (Cargo/Liquid).
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GrosserKreuzer
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by GrosserKreuzer »

In all test I have done the game just loaded 2x250kg, at least I don't know any way to load different bombs.

Adding the 2nd half of the picture from my first post.
Witp_Emily_bombs.jpg
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Nomad
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Nomad »

GrosserKreuzer wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:40 pm In all test I have done the game just loaded 2x250kg, at least I don't know any way to load different bombs.

Adding the 2nd half of the picture from my first post.
I doubt this will be changed in the new patch. But things can be modded, see this thread

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0#p3038190
Cavalry Corp
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Cavalry Corp »

I have been playing this game since it came out I’m still enjoy it very much. There are quite a few things that could be done to improve it and a lot of you have already made good contributions. Here are my ideas.
Some will agree some may not…

BASES
Option not to repair airfield or port
Option not to refuel ships on making a TF.

CV AIR GROUPS
Allow on board air groups into two or three parts has allowed without penalty to the five group maximum for carriers. This will give players many more tactical options and seems very historical to me.

PILOTS
Have a button – activate all pilots not click one at a time!

AIR ATTACKS AND AIR
Allow setting of an arc for naval attacks
Omit the name of the attacking CV air group form the players info / combat map more FOW
Omit the name of the attacked ship or increase FOW.
Reduce effectiveness of air attacks in Jungle, Forest etc hexes in general.
Allow a “set all” button that works for night missions. Improve night CAP interception where radar is present
Allow for aircraft collision in combat based on exp and random chances?
Allow air Kamikaze mission to ram bombers based on high skill and exp
Look at training – General training should be better and reflect the plane so say Bombers focus on bombing style stuff not anything just random
Bombers to gain more experience for combat missions.
Allow pilot recovery mission (with arc) for Patrols- I would like to add more of this in my mod!
Reduce the effectiveness of altitude in air combat a bit?


SUBMARINES
Double all flotation damage to submarines
Add a SS AV possibility, add SS AO possibility even if just for moding.
Maybe halve SS construction costs, say divide by 2 its too high just now as based on durability

SHIPS AND COMBAT
Allow a critical hit on loaded TT ammo/ TT unit.
Allow damage from near miss hits as an extra option
Double floatation damage from TT to all transport types – one TT should always be enough
Double fire damage to AKE etc ??

MAP
Fix a point were ships are sunk on the map would be really nice to review!
Add option to deploy initial mines in the editor at bases
Add a Typhoon weather condition that damages ships – small ships a lot.

Nationalities
Add ability to mod more.

SHIPS
Increase chance of in port destruction under repair. I have played the campaign c 5 times it has never happened – in reality it happened a few times.
Add more chance of run aground on amph TF deploying
Maintain a log of all weapon strikes on a ship – would be real nice to review!
Allow XK etc to carry oil in barrels
Allow AP to carry resources
Add option to add Hospital ship type = provide land support points when disbanded in port. Would like to add in mods.

GROUND UNITS
Omit the names on air attack – more FOW
Do not fire AA guns that cannot reach the planes and diminish supply
Forbid Pursuits in non plain hexes
Allow defend units not to return bombards

INDUSTRY AND AIRCRAFT
Reduce LI repair to about 250 supply per units damage or allow it to be set for modding
Add more Engine type slots for Japan for modding
Add more bands for aircraft reliability for more finesse. Even if just for modding.
Reduce accuracy of bomber guns (did this already in my mod and working well) , say auto reduce the guns accuracy on certain types of AC??

A Bomb
Increase destructive power to affect all units and all industry in hex?

OPTIONS
Allow more options on reinforcements in the +/- for planes, ships etc as separate items
Panjack
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Panjack »

Cavalry Corp wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:00 pm ...Option not to refuel ships on making a TF...
You might be pointing to a different issue, but forgetting to click on the option below (when appropriate) is the bane of my existence:
refueling.jpg
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Nomad
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by Nomad »

And on activating pilots faster, use this. You can activate 10 per mouse click, much faster than individually.
active switch.png
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flailen
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by flailen »

Can the 2nd and following patrol or waypoint default view to the last entered, rather than jump all the way back to the origin
GuyTipton
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Re: Making the last Beta Official

Post by GuyTipton »

Hi Folks, Using the latest beta with no mods, pbem. This is an actual bug that is possible (but not easy) to duplicate. I see it about once a year (daily turns). When selecting which base to transfer a air unit to, you can sort on range, base size and supply. If there are a lot of bases within range (think 4e or patrol), and you click on the sort keys several times fairly quickly, it is possible to lock up the game engine. Not a major problem, but I think it's indication of some sort of memory stomp.
Cheers,
Guy
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