A6M3 upgrading squadrons

[Nazcatraz]

There is axiom in Shattered Sword that Japanese forgot in real war but works also in WitP-AE:

"There are only two targets in Pacific, those that are worth attacking with full Kido Butai and those that are not worth attacking with it."

It basically means that don't split KB to go after secondary targets. Japanese did split which did lead to Coral Sea and then disaster in Midway. Had IJN arrived to both with full KB, it'd be very hard for them to lose the battles.

Who knows, they could have lost the entire 6 carriers instead of 4. We have to remember that Nimitz knew about the whole thing. So maybe it's a good thing (for Japan) that they didn't come with all 6.

[Chris21wen]

There is axiom in Shattered Sword that Japanese forgot in real war but works also in WitP-AE:

"There are only two targets in Pacific, those that are worth attacking with full Kido Butai and those that are not worth attacking with it."

It basically means that don't split KB to go after secondary targets. Japanese did split which did lead to Coral Sea and then disaster in Midway. Had IJN arrived to both with full KB, it'd be very hard for them to lose the battles.

Who knows, they could have lost the entire 6 carriers instead of 4. We have to remember that Nimitz knew about the whole thing. So maybe it's a good thing (for Japan) that they didn't come with all 6.

Or maybe the US would not have had any carriers, all sunk in the Coral Sea. It's all pure speculations with no thought to the historial facts surrounding the decisions.

[Sardaukar]

6 CVs vs. 2-3 is horribly bad odds for USN in that situation.

[Nazcatraz]

6 vs 4.

[Platoonist]

Nimitz was willing to fight if the odds at the point of contact were roughly even, but not if they favored Japan.
That might not have been a bad decision considering the ground reinforcements Midway had received prior to the battle. Probably the most eye-opening chapter in Shattered Sword for me was the one discussing the inadequacy of the amphibious force Japan brought to take the atoll. Even if the US Navy had declined battle, Colonel Ichiki's troopers likely would have faced a landing that would have made Tarawa seem like a beach party given the spot they were due to land at.

[MKmark]

Coral see Battle (the two carriers were sink) one is on perth deep and the other..

I just want to point the BUSHIDO way of japan life
; this code was the enemy for japan. why..

The Bushido code was what sank the Japanese, that is, and I refer to the code, the Japanese despite seeking that battle (just like Hitler in Kurks who later abandoned 5 elite divisions surrounded by Stalingrad.) that is, the decisive battle that would give glory to the Japanese, well this code was the one that, having 9 aircraft carriers, the Japanese go and send 4 just because according to their code, when the Americans have 3 aircraft carriers, the Japanese According to their code of honor, an unequal battle does not correspond, well the logical thing if they seek a decisive battle is to send the 9 aircraft carriers, 4 as an invasion and land force and another 5 to combat navally. Let everyone draw their own conclusions. Their code of honor sank them and then the Americans went and in gratitude for the code of honor that gave them victory in Midway they put two atom bombs on them.

[Sardaukar]

6 vs 4.

USS Saratoga was hit with torpedo Jan 11 1942 and was out for permanent repairs and upgrades at Bremerton Navy Yard from 9 February until June 1942.

So, 3 CVs max available.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Wait a second - are you saying that the IJN has sent only four carriers to Midway instead of nine in respect of the Japanese Bushido code of Honor which demands offering the USN a fair fight?

[Sardaukar]

What https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuo_Fuchida later said about so called "victory disease" have some truth in it, though he was very much debunked to be lying and distorting facts about Midway battle.

It was not only makers of Shattered Sword but also other historians (also in Japan) that debunked him.

As I said, had full Kido Butai been in Coral Sea or in Midway, it'd be very difficult to see how USN could have won those battles. Especially since Coral Sea with those odds would most likely have USN to lose 2 CVs.

Not that it'd have changed final outcome, but might have delayed it.

[Platoonist]

Wait a second - are you saying that the IJN has sent only four carriers to Midway instead of nine in respect of the Japanese Bushido code of Honor which demands offering the USN a fair fight?

What's funny is technically the Japanese did use eight carriers in the overall Midway operation. But they frittered them all over the North Pacific in unsupporting task forces in a fruitless attempt at deception. A little too much Sun Tzu philosophy when blunt, concentrated force would have been the better option

[Platoonist]

(just like Hitler in Kurks who later abandoned 5 elite divisions surrounded by Stalingrad.)

Stalingrad happened after Kursk?

[Sardaukar]

Not to mention Germany lost bit more than 5 divisions in Stalingrad...they lost whole 6th Army and then some.

But I digress.

While IJN had some useful carriers outside Kido Butai, basically all others were "ugly stepsisters" to them.

It was KB that represented their edge over USN (since they were really good and well-trained thing operating together). Once they had diminished first at Coral Sea and then at Midway, there was not possibility for IJN to get that edge back.

It is wise for Japan-player to take good care of KB, since next fleet carrier is long way to come from shipyard. And USN will be getting Essex-class ones pretty regularly.

[Nazcatraz]

6 vs 4.

USS Saratoga was hit with torpedo Jan 11 1942 and was out for permanent repairs and upgrades at Bremerton Navy Yard from 9 February until June 1942.

So, 3 CVs max available.

Had Coral Sea not happened, Lexington would have still been there. Yorktown + Lexington + Hornet + Enterprise = 4.

[MKmark]

(just like Hitler in Kurks who later abandoned 5 elite divisions surrounded by Stalingrad.)

Stalingrad happened after Kursk?

Mira que me jode dar explicaciones..

A ver "by stalingrad" is the google translation that says that in kurks happend the same as Stalingrad

and yes Sardaukar..in Stalingrad 750.000 about...15 divisiones

and In kurks 1943.. Hitler after the battle; 5 divisions elite panzers where encircle and surrender. i mean They could have escaped after the battle but Hitler told them not to retreat.

[Nazcatraz]

(just like Hitler in Kurks who later abandoned 5 elite divisions surrounded by Stalingrad.)

Stalingrad happened after Kursk?

Mira que me jode dar explicaciones..

A ver "by stalingrad" is the google translation that says that in kurks happend the same as Stalingrad

and yes Sardaukar..in Stalingrad 750.000 about...15 divisiones

and In kurks 1943.. Hitler after the battle; 5 divisions elite panzers where encircle and surrender. i mean They could have escaped after the battle but Hitler told them not to retreat.

source: trust me bro.

[Sardaukar]

Seriously, just no...

None of those numbers match historical records.