rhinobones wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:39 pm
golden delicious wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:26 pm
rhinobones wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:11 pm
That’s a very specific case. Can you make a reasonable general case where units “always” subdivide into three components with one of them in reorganization?
No. Happily, units that retreat don't "always" . . .
. . . they absolutely can defend themselves.
I see you focused on the word “always” and used it as reasoning not to give a general case. That’s ok, I understand where you’re coming from. I probably shouldn’t have used the word “always”, as it was only intended to illustrate that when units do divide, it is always into three components. I don’t think you can argue with that.
My understanding is that to defend a units must be capable of some level of maneuver and entrenchment otherwise; people are milling about in a disorganized state. A unit in reorganization can neither maneuver nor entrench, therefore, it cannot defend in a military manner. I’m not sure, but I believe that the reorganizing unit cannot even receive replacements. From your military studies what constitutes the act of defending? What is the definition of "defend"?
What you missed was the question about real life examples of military units splitting, portions going into reorganization and being in reorganization for an extended time. Reorganizing for a week when using Fall Grau as the baseline. Your military studies must be full of examples which can be verified. And just to cover all the bases, include examples where the reorganizing unit was attacked and successfully defended.
Regards, RhinoBones
Whenever we are dealing with something divisional in scale and week long in TOAW we are necessarily dealing with a a lot of abstraction. So Fall Grau is a view of the campaign from the perspective of High Command. The breakdown and reorganization element gives a pretty good feel of a Division that is not totally outside of high commands control but is now fighting at a significantly reduced capacity and not fully and faithfully executing orders coming from High Command.It does a reasonable job of giving the feel of a line that is falling apart under impact.
So in Fall Grau such a Division may have many fates - it might be the victim of continued enemy exploration, it may continue to fight in the line, albeit at reduced capacity or, as is often the case, it might be withdrawn from the line until such time as it can be reorganized and reassembled and sent back into the fighting.
I would think that most of the major offensives of World War II that where successful left the defenders looking like this. Often with elements reeling backward, getting intermixed among other defenders. Sometimes only part of the Division escapes the trap and, in general, if given time the what is left can be either rebuilt or dissolved and re-dispersed among the remaining units.
For me the important part here is that we get the look and feel for what happens when a front line comes under heavy assault, especially by a large mechanized force. If units always stay together it is actually very difficult to get the game to simulate Blitzkrieg. Its more like watch one side hammer a defender slowly backward and while that happened the tanks bursting through the line and beginning to sweep around the flanks or break through into the enemy rear area also happened.
