Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

[sPzAbt653]

Referring to previous discussions about Missile Ranges and TOAW Icons, I have come across this in the manual:

Some units have anti-aircraft fire ranges of up to 50 kilometers against Air units participating in Combat Support or Bombardment Missions in the area.

It doesn't appear that these fire ranges are attributed to the Unit Icon used as AA Icons are not Ranged [and based on the Special Characteristics Icon List, the AA Icons have none]. Looking into the EQP File it's also not apparent that there is a Flag there that allows for Ranged AA Fire. Therefore, the assumption would be that this aspect is a result of the Equipment itself.

If anyone has any further or more specific details on AA vs Air Units it would be appreciated.

[sPzAbt653]

Interesting reading concerning one reason why Russia is not as effective as expected:

Battalion Tactical Group [BTG] - forms the mainstay of Russia's military. BTGs comprise a tank company, three mechanized infantry companies, two anti-tank companies, two or three artillery batteries, and two air-defense batteries. BTGs typically compose roughly half of the equipment and personnel of the deployed brigade. The BTG's relative lack of manpower (they deploy with about 200 infantrymen) makes it reliant upon proxy troops and paramilitaries (such as the pro-Russian militias in the Donbass war) to provide security along the flanks and rear. The BTG commander likely has to communicate with the proxy troops through unsecure and unreliable means such as mobile phones. By Russian law, conscripts are not allowed to serve in BTGs outside of Russia. Outside of Russia, the troops of a BTG serve on a volunteer basis. The limited manpower of the BTG makes the commanders less likely to engage in urban combat. As they derive their manpower and equipment primarily through the cannibalization of a larger unit, their sustainability in long-term operations is also in doubt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion_tactical_group

[hrfepo1]

Welcome. We can work on a possible Ukraine 2022 scenario here. Attached is the work in progress scenario file. This map could withstand a full blown war in Europe situation. Just in case.

This is an ongoing conflict so we initially can't model history. Propaganda is certainly an issue.

All contributions are welcome. This map is from 1945 so it will need updating. TOAW is very flexible, and there is a full Editor for weapons systems. My area of interest is WWII, so modern systems are not very familiar to me. I believe I will grab the Modern Database that is posted here somewhere and try to use it.

Super Large thanks to Soren 'Doc' Gaun and the FitE2 Team for the use of their map as a base. It's even larger than what is seen in the Jump Map below (centered on Kyiv]:

Great job! This post is an excellent tutorial for building scenarios. Thank you all!

[broccolini]

Most of you have probably seen this but there may be some useful info for scenario design. It seems well researched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIm4mQihHdA

[hrfepo1]

Thanks! This video is remarkably interesting and informative.

[sPzAbt653]

We're up to 150 Turns at One Day per Turn. That's a bit much, so changing it to Half Week Turns is better for scenario length. But at this map scale, most movement allowances are now 43, which isn't very good. That seems like too much movement while the other side waits for their turn.

[hrfepo1]

It may have to be divided by battles. Like most WW2 games.

[cathar1244]

Thus far, the decisive phase of the war appeared to be what happened initially. The scenario could model the first two months with turns representing a day.

Time will tell if the war gets highly mobile again.

Cheers

[rhinobones]

We're up to 150 Turns at One Day per Turn. That's a bit much, so changing it to Half Week Turns is better for scenario length. But at this map scale, most movement allowances are now 43, which isn't very good.

You have several options for adjusting movement. Try playing with Enemy-Hex Conversion Cost, Force Movement Bias and ZOC Cost. So long as you don’t get too aggressive with movement bias you should be able to restrict total movement allowance without corrupting the time/distance ratio.

Regards

[sPzAbt653]

These are all great ideas for consideration, thanks!

The scenario could model the first two months with turns representing a day.

This might be a very reasonable solution. There could always be a separate hypothetical scenario that will last longer and include a NATO vs Russia escalation.

[rhinobones]

The scenario could model the first two months with turns representing a day.
This might be a very reasonable solution. There could always be a separate hypothetical scenario that will last longer and include a NATO vs Russia escalation.

As I follow the war, I see two distinct scenarios evolving. The first is the battle for Kyiv, then redeployment and the battle for Kherson/Mariupol/Donetsk. Who knows what the future will bring, but Putin could easily develop this into more phases.

As for the hypothetical, available to you are random variations of NATO, Moldova, Transdniestria, Belarus and Iran joining the fight. Plenty there to keep you off the streets for the foreseeable future. Good luck.

Regards

[sPzAbt653]

Plenty there to keep you off the streets for the foreseeable future.
Yes indeed! Therefore it seems good practice to focus on the first 60 Days. Victory conditions might could be to capture three of Kyiv, Kharkov, Dnipro or Odessa.

random variations of NATO, Moldova, Transdniestria, Belarus and Iran joining the fight.
This stuff I love for a larger, longer scenario version.

[sPzAbt653]

Ukrainian postage stamp, depicting a Ukrainian soldier giving Russian cruiser Moskva the finger, issued two days before it sank.

Slava Ukraini !!

[lion_of_judah]

I hope once this scenario is released, we armchair commanders make better decisions than the Ukrainian High command has made. I look forward to playing this, but in reality I don't see how Ukraine will win this.

[broccolini]

So far so good against an opponent with every advantage.

[gregb41352]

"better decisions than the Ukrainian High command has made"

Surely you meant to say better decisions than the Russian high command?
Ukraine wins by not losing. Which is the current state of affairs.

[sPzAbt653]

Beta version posted here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=388062

[Prolych]

Of course, I understand that the game is full of conventions, but I have a question.

Why are there 18 tanks in the tank battalion of the tank brigade of Ukraine? IRL in the tank battalion of the tank brigade of Ukraine 31 tanks. (3 tanks in a platoon, three platoons in a company, plus a commander's tank, for a total of 10 tanks in a company, 30 tanks in three companies, plus a battalion commander's tank = 31 tanks in a tank battalion of a tank brigade).

The IRL tank brigade of Ukraine includes three tank battalions and one mechanized battalion. I admit that you have spread the mechbat across the tank battalions by company for each tank battalion.

Assuming that you have spread the mechbat over the tank battalions, it is strange to see that in your tank battalion of the tank brigade of Ukraine there are only 8 BMP-1, although there are 11 BMP-1 in the company of the mechanized battalion, therefore, having transferred the company of the mechbat to the tank battalion, they should receive 11 BMP-1, not 8.

TankBatZSU.png (129.32 KiB) Viewed 641 times

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks for looking into this.

This source says 39 [we generally don't put the commander tank in the front line although they sometimes were]. This source was Wiki, should we rely more on your source?

UKRAINIAN tank battalion:
Three tank companies. Each company has a control, three tank platoons of twelve people. Each platoon contains four T-64B / T-64BM Bulat tanks. There are a total of thirteen tanks and 41 people.
Anti-aircraft missile platoon, equipped with nine units of the Strela-3 MANPADS.
An engineer-engineer platoon consisting of eleven employees.
TOTAL Eqp: : forty T-64B / T-64BM Bulat tanks (39 vehicles for privates and one for the battalion commander), one BREM, one BMP-1K, one BMP-1KSh, nine MANPADS, one BRM-1.

Again, from Wiki:
A Russian tank battalion has three companies of 10 tanks each, plus a command tank, for 31 tanks total. Some tank battalions in Motorized Rifle Brigades have four companies, for 41 tanks total.
A Motorized Rifle Brigade has one tank battalion, so 31 or 41 tanks total.
A Tank Brigade has three tank battalions, so 93 tanks total.

[sPzAbt653]

they should receive 11 BMP-1, not 8.

For 'transport' assets, we need to check the Equipment by right-clicking on it in the Unit Report. If you see this:

Ukr39.jpg (60.22 KiB) Viewed 610 times

It means that particular Equipment is a Transport Asset, and that means that it is not a 1-1 item. Generally, '1' Transport Item counts as two or three of a real item. This is taken into account in the statistics for each equipment.

Generally, scenario designers use transport assets to tailor movement allowances, so the 2-1 or 3-1 guideline isn't always followed. With the increasing presence of IFV's since TOAW was designed, things can get even foggier.