Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

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Ardi
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

sPzAbt653 wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:39 am Yeah ... I'd like to know from the Russian generals how the Tank Brigades are handled. It seems they contain 93 Tanks in 3 regiments. So if we make 2 Battalion Tactical Groups out of the Brigade, do we put 46 in each of those? Or 31 in each of the 2 while the other 31 stay back in reserve? If the case is they are in reserve, then they would be put in the 'On Hand' I would suppose.

This is a 46 Tank BTG:
Core of BTG is battalion. So idea with 31 is more correct.
Another hint - tank regiments of divisions of the Western Military District reportedly only had 1 Motor Rifle company per regiment. So WMD tank BTGs should have less infantry, most likely only a platoon.
Situation with other districts is kinda speculative, some had more infantry in their tank BTGs.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Ok thanks for that ... now we have 46 = 0, 31 = 1. Let's see if any others cast a vote!

The Tank Rgt's of WMD had one company per rgt? Holy Lack of Infantry General Surovikin!!

Currently we are putting one company [9 squads] of infantry in each Tank Battalion Tactical Group. With respect to the total TO&E of these units, 9 squads is a pittance, but it may be too many. Ughh.

I don't have a link handy, but this is from 'Defeating the Russian Battalion Tactical Group' by CPT Nicolas J. Fiore. Unfortunately it appears to be from 2016, so it is probably good only as a reference.

BTGs deploy from garrison with about 200 infantrymen in four maneuver companies. According to Russian Army manuals, in the field as many as 50 percent of infantry soldiers can be required for local security and routine administrative tasks. This leaves relatively few infantrymen available for mounted squads. Squads are usually organized ad hoc and are less than fully manned, which makes them less effective and less independent. The lack of infantry causes BTG commanders to address this shortfall by incorporating light-infantry militia from the local area. Unfortunately, militia are difficult to coordinate, move and sustain in the offense — even in the defense, coordinating, supporting and sustaining the militia taxes mission-command and sustainment resources.

The reason I post this quote is because while it acknowledges the lack of professional infantry in Russian units [and we also have this from multiple current sources], it points to including militia's. We also have mention in other current sources of incorporating 'para-militaries' to bolster units. Therefore, maybe we can get away with handing the Tank BTG's a company instead of a platoon.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by cathar1244 »

I think part of the reason for small infantry presence in those regiments is that, in wartime, they're supposed to be filled out with reservists. But Russia didn't mobilize before the war and it was a 'come as you are' war for the units moving into Ukraine.

The militia assumption is okay IMO. I recall reading some kind of Russian police units took part in the prewar maneuvers in Belarus and then found themselves shoehorned into taking part in the invasion. There was a few months ago a widely publicized video of one of their commanders who was captured by the Ukrainians.

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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

Gave mod a try, and while I've only played a couple of turns, I've got a ton of feedback to give. But since it'll take a lot of time to compilate, verify and write down all my thoughts, I'll be giving them piece by piece.

And first of all - DPR and LPR OOB. At the start of the game I had been wondering, why DPR/LPR forces are so weak, and then I looked at their OOB. Later I understood, where did you get it (english Wikipedia page on OOB of Russo-Ukrainian war), but oh boy, the guy who wrote it down there did a lazy job.

So the full chart is below, it might have some inaccuracies (hard to get 100% proof on existing military at war), but it will still be much more accurate. I could give you proofs on most of these units if necessary. OOB of the units presented should be pretty accurate, since Russian military advisors tried to shape LDPR forces to Russian OOB standards, where possible.

Donetsk People’s Republic
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
1st “Slavyansk” Motorized Rifle Brigade – 3 Motorized Rifle Battalion - regular Russian MRB, armed with BMP-1/2, BTR-80 and possibly MTLB for support units, 6 120-mm mortars, 6 AGS-17, 4-6 SA-16/SA-18 MANPADS, more on organization of MRB - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=felcqDnfrGA
1 Tank Battalion (40 tanks, T-64/T-72)
1 Arty Battalion (18 D-30)
1 SPArty Battalion (18 2S1 Gvozdika)
1 MRL Battalion (18 BM-21 Grad)
1 AAB (6 SA-13, 6 ZU-23-2)
1 ATBat (4-6 MT-12 anti-tank gun, 4-6 AT-5 ATGM)
1 Recon Coy (7-10 BMP/MTLB)
3rd Motorized Rifle Brigade – same, but Tank Battalion is 31 tanks
5th “Donetsk” Motorized Rifle Brigade – same, but Tank Battalion is 31 tanks
100th Motorized Rifle Brigade – same, but Tank Company instead of a battalion
“Kalmius” Separate Artillery Brigade – Arty battalion (12 2A36 Giatsint towed guns, 12 2A65 Msta-B towed guns), howitzer battalion (24 2S1 Gvozdika), MRL battalion (18 BM-21 Grad, 2 BM-27 Uragan). Anti-tank battalion (they aren't in the list, but I suppose there should be 12 MT-12 AT guns)
9th Naval Infantry Regiment – 2 MRB (standard), 1 TB (31 T-72), 1 SParty Bat (18 2S1 Gvozdika), 1 Arty Battery (6 120-mm 2B16 Nona guns/mortars), 1 AA battalion (6 SA-13, 6 Zu-23-2), Recon company (7-10 BMP/MTLB)
11th Motorized Rifle Regiment – 2 MRB (standard), 1 Tank Company (10 T-72), 1 SParty Bat (12 2S1 Gvozdika, 12 2S9 Nona-S) 1 AA battalion (6 SA-13, 6 Zu-23-2), Recon company (7-10 BMP/MTLB), Anti-tank battery (4 MT-12 AT gun)
Separate commandant regiment – military security and police regiment, light infantry with no heavy weapons on trucks/armored cars
2nd Separate Tank Battalion – 4 Tank companies, 1 Motorized Rifle company, 1 Arty Battery, Recon platoon
41 T-72, 10 BMP, 6 D-30, BMP/MTLB
Separate AA Battalion - 6 SA-13, 6 Zu-23-2
Separate Recon Battalion “Sparta” – 3 Recon/SpecOps companies, transported by BTR
Separate Motorized Rifle Battalion “Somali” – 3 Motorized Rifle Companies (standard, on BMP), 1 Tank Company (10 T-64), Battalion Artillery Group (6 120-mm mortars, 6 120-mm 2S9 Nona-S)
1st Spetsnaz battalion – 2 companies, 4 squads each
3rd Spetsnaz battalion – probably same
Separate repair battalion “Kongo”
Separate security battalion “Pautina”
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Territorial Defense Battalions – most likely standard Motorized Rifle Battalions with trucks as transports and older weaponry. However, these are also regulars, not mobilized.
Reservist regiments – 103rd, 105th, 107th, 108th, 109th, 111th, 113th, 115th, 117th, 119th, 121st, 123rd, 125th, 127th, 129th, 131st
Organization – most likely 3 battalions each (at least, based on the reports of Russian volunteer organizations) each similar to Territorial Defense ones, just filled in by mobilized, not regulars. And no regiment-level heavy weapons.

Lugansk People’s Republic
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
2nd Motorized Rifle Brigade – no detailed info on it, but I assume it’s similar to 3rd Motorized Rifle Brigade of DPR
4th Motorized Rifle Brigade – same
7th Motorized Rifle Brigade – same
Separate Artillery Brigade – probably similar to DPR “Kalmius” artillery brigade, maybe a bit less in size
6th Cossack Motorized Rifle Regiment – Similar to 11th DPR Motorized Rifle Regiment
Separate Commandant Regiment – same as DPR
4th Separate Tank Battalion – similar to DPR 2nd Separate Tank Battalion
Separate Motorized Rifle Battalion “Rus”
Separate AA Battalion - 6 SA-13, 6 Zu-23-2
Separate Recon Battalion – 3 Recon companies, transported by BMP/BTR
Spetsnaz battalion – 2 companies, 4 squads each
Separate repair battalion
Separate security battalion

11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th Territorial Defense Battalions – similar to DPR ones
Reservist Regiments – 202nd, 204th, 206th, 208th – same as DPR
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Thanks for the links and details. The OOB's for the DPR and LPR that are currently in the scenario are the first draft rough in that we started with. Most info we find is from 2014-2015, so we've been waiting for better recent info. This type of details has been found for Ukraine and Russia, so both of their OOB's and TO&E's have been revised since first draft.

The dedicated Wiki pages for DPR and LPR seem to have OOB's from 2014, while the main 'Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine' page states the OOB's from February 2022. Of course we understand that Intelligence is scarce [Loose Lips Sink Ships], but we made the decision to go with the 2022 Wiki version as a start and as with most everything else we await further updates.

Do you have an opinion if the DPR and LPR use Battalion Tactical Groupings, or is that only a Russian thing?
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

sPzAbt653 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:44 am Thanks for the links and details. The OOB's for the DPR and LPR that are currently in the scenario are the first draft rough in that we started with. Most info we find is from 2014-2015, so we've been waiting for better recent info. This type of details has been found for Ukraine and Russia, so both of their OOB's and TO&E's have been revised since first draft.

The dedicated Wiki pages for DPR and LPR seem to have OOB's from 2014, while the main 'Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine' page states the OOB's from February 2022. Of course we understand that Intelligence is scarce [Loose Lips Sink Ships], but we made the decision to go with the 2022 Wiki version as a start and as with most everything else we await further updates.

Do you have an opinion if the DPR and LPR use Battalion Tactical Groupings, or is that only a Russian thing?
As I said, the person who wrote down that "Order of battle for the invasion" page did a very poor job on LDPR forces at least. The only source cited there as a proof is about mobilization in LDPR and new units being formed. But I understand your concern, so I will try to bring more prooflinks for each of my statements.

For example, a JominiW map (of a later date, but still), if you need a Western source on the matter.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYPLg4sXgAE ... =4096x4096
Check the orange markings, they represent LPR and DPR units.

As for your question about BTG in LDPR - I'm honestly not sure, I think it would be fine either way.

But there is also a question regarding game mechanic - if you include artillery into a combat unit, does it work as intended? Because it seems that it loses capability to do a bombardment if it is part of a MechInf battalion, for example.

Now, about Donbass area overall:
Here are some of the DPR assesment about the disposition of Ukrainian forces along the LDPR border as of 23.01.2022. It also confirms OOB for LPR and DPR that I've presented in the last paragraph of each article.
LPR
https://asd.news/articles/voyna/vsu-v-tsifrakh/
DPR
https://asd.news/articles/voyna/vsu-v-t ... -chast-ii/
And a map from some OSINT Russian guy (earliest as of 28.02 here), which is kinda correlates with what's written above.
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dragon_ ... iginal.png
I understand that it is hard to understand in Russian with all the acronyms, so I'll translate the main ones.
одшбр - Air Assault Brigade
омбр - Mechanized Brigade
омпбр - Motorized Brigade
овдбр - Airborne Brigade
оабр - Artillery Brigade
обмп - Naval Infantry battalion
оаэрмоббр - Air Mobile Brigade
оп - Regiment

So, based on these sources (and bunch of others regarding the actions of particular units), I would try to assess the initial deployment of LDPR forces and they Ukrainian counterparts (going south to north).

Ukraine:
36th Naval Infantry Brigade, or to be exact, 503rd NavInf Battalion - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/36-%D1%8F ... 1%82%D1%8B
THey seem to be reversed in scenario/
56th Motorized motorized brigade - seems to be kinda divided, with part of their forces being near Mariupol, and part - west of the Donetsk. Source above also claims that 56th has full tank battalion instead of a company.
North of them (near Volnovakha) should be 53rd Mechanized brigade from Severodonetsk. Proof on that: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienr ... 4ad324d3a1
It is also noted that 53rd had tank battalion of 40 tanks (3 companies, 13 tanks each). For some reason, all Ukrainian units in scenario have much lesser number of tanks, than they should have. There is also info that 53rd should include, beside regular units and "Aidar" battalion, a separate motorized rifle battalion.
Then sources vary a bit on the exact disposition of those units along the front line, but agree on the overall composition - up to the Svetlodar and Vuhlehirskaya TES are 54th Motorized Brigade, 25th Airborne Brigade, 95th Air Assault Brigade, 30th Mechanized Brigade. Then, from Pervomaisk and to Russian border, in this order - 24th Mechanized Brigade, 57th Motorized Brigade, 79th Air Assault Brigade. In reserve there was 81th Airmobile Brigade.
National Guard and Territorial defence units I'll write down later.

In scenario there are 80th Airborne and 14th Mechanized Brigades to the west of Donetsk, but I believe that to be incorrect. 80th Airborne was in Mykolaev area - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80th_Air_ ... _(Ukraine)
The sentence about Voznesensk.
14th was in the Western Ukraine, and took part in battle for Kiev.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Sepa ... _(Ukraine)

Will add stuff to the post later, gotta go.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Thanks for all of your time on this.
regarding game mechanic - if you include artillery into a combat unit
We have mentioned this earlier as a concern. Units on both sides are organized both ways, in order to determine what works best.

However, Russia has several dedicated artillery units [organic to Army formations]. Ukraine doesn't have any of these. So is that the way it should be, or should some Ukraine tubes be separated? That's fairly rhetorical. I don't want to make separate artillery units for both sides as this would create too many small units to move around, and would also allow some possible unhistorical actions. But it might not be too bad an idea to create just a few small units containing Hi-Mars, Ceasar's, 777's or PZH 2000's in order to allow the Ukraine side to conduct some Counter-Battery.

It would be interesting to know where all of the tubes that are being received from other countries are going in Ukraine's TO&E's.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

all Ukrainian units in scenario have much lesser number of tanks, than they should have
Just checking, that you have the latest, because the Ukrainian TO&E's were updated:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=388062
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by cathar1244 »

Ukraine doesn't have any of these.
What about the artillery brigades of the operational commands ?

Wiki mentions the 55th Brigade got 18 Caesar systems from France. But pretty sure most of the artillery from other countries arrived after 60 days into the war. Also mentions the 26th Brigade is operating Panzerhaubitze 2000 systems received from Germany and the Netherlands.

Wiki also mentions these separate artillery units:

Current structure

19th Missile Brigade "Saint Barbara" (OTR-21 Tochka-U), Khmelnytskyi
27th Rocket Artillery Brigade "Sumy" (BM-27 Uragan), Sumy[28]
43rd Heavy Artillery Brigade (2S7 Pion), Pereiaslav
45th Artillery Brigade (Reserve)[29]
38th Artillery Brigade[30]
26th Artillery Brigade (Operational Command North), Berdychiv
40th Artillery Brigade (Operational Command South), Pervomaisk
44th Artillery Brigade (Operational Command West), Ternopil
55th Artillery Brigade (Operational Command East), Zaporizhia
6th Artillery Training Regiment, Divychky
15th Rocket Artillery Regiment "Kyiv" (BM-30 Smerch), Drogobych
107th Rocket Artillery Brigade (BM-30 Smerch), Kremenchuk

Cheers
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Nice thing about Wiki links is that they are a different color if previously clicked on. This makes it easy to go back and check that OOB page every couple weeks to see what has been updated. I can see which of these are not in yet because they hadn't been clicked on ;)

A couple of these are already in, the rest will be added, thanks!
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

So the question can be further pondered. Above rgt/bde/div level artillery units are currently separate for both sides, there doesn't seem any reason to argue this.

However, most rgt/bde/div level artillery is also in separate units [see example formation below]. Should they instead be
included in their parent units?

The issue is, separate rgt/bde/div level artillery units allows the player to remove them from their parent structure to be used elsewhere. In most cases this is not historical. If actual reports are that belligerents in this conflict gathered up all of their lower level artillery to be massed in one area, then we have an answer. But this is generally not historical and allows too much flexibility.

If not in separate units, then these tubes should be placed in the rgt/btn units that they belong to. However, this may be too restrictive as in such a configuration they cannot bombard beyond one hex [technically they don't really bombard even at 1 hex, but their strength is used in combat], which may be too restrictive in a 5/km scale where artillery has a 2+ hex range.

As a player, I trust myself to keep units where they belong, and I like the flexibility to bombard beyond 1 hex. So I want my cake and I want to eat it too.
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Ardi
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

sPzAbt653 wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:39 am However, most rgt/bde/div level artillery is also in separate units [see example formation below]. Should they instead be
included in their parent units?
I think that it is better, considering the hex scale, and importance of artillery in this confict, to give an ability to fire regimental/brigade artillery properly (since it can hit 3-4 hexes away) and keep it in one unit. I've also noticed the lack of an HQ for the formations (though I can't remember properly, how HQ in TOAW works), but maybe you could simply make HQ and artillery unit combined (with some air defence from regiment/brigade on top)? Two birds with one stone, your artillery is your main unit, and you could only take a battalion out of it (also isn't a battalion too far from parent HQ has supply issues in TOAW?)

And about different battalions being on different fronts - at least Ukraine did it multiple times, as an example:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... wo-fronts/
sPzAbt653 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:59 pm
all Ukrainian units in scenario have much lesser number of tanks, than they should have
Just checking, that you have the latest, because the Ukrainian TO&E's were updated:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=388062
Is v. 1.20 the latest? I play on it. and it still has this issue. Downloaded it a week ago from the first post in Ukraine 2022 Beta thread.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I can't find these in the Wiki OOB, where do you see them?

45th Artillery Brigade (Reserve)[29]
38th Artillery Brigade[30]
15th Rocket Artillery Regiment "Kyiv" (BM-30 Smerch), Drogobych

I think maybe the 6th Artillery Training Regiment will be left out of the scenario, because it is a training unit?
Last edited by sPzAbt653 on Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

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Ardi wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:23 pm
sPzAbt653 wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:39 am However, most rgt/bde/div level artillery is also in separate units [see example formation below]. Should they instead be
included in their parent units?
I think that it is better, considering the hex scale, and importance of artillery in this conflict, to give an ability to fire regimental/brigade artillery properly (since it can hit 3-4 hexes away) and keep it in one unit. I've also noticed the lack of an HQ for the formations (though I can't remember properly, how HQ in TOAW works), but maybe you could simply make HQ and artillery unit combined (with some air defense from regiment/brigade on top)? Two birds with one stone, your artillery is your main unit, and you could only take a battalion out of it (also isn't a battalion too far from parent HQ has supply issues in TOAW?)
Yes, that all makes sense. Now lets talk about the scenario design, with respect to differences in how the two sides should be represented based on the actual situation.

Kramer, Andrew; Hopkins, Valerie (10 June 2022). "Shortage of Artillery Ammunition Saps Ukrainian Frontline Morale". Retrieved 25 June 2022.
It is stated here that 'Ukraine claims that it is firing 6,000 projectiles daily in fighting. This compares to Russia firing an estimated 70,000 projectiles'. Whatever the actual numbers are doesn't matter for this discussion, we can all assume that Russia is firing off many more shells than Ukraine. However, TOAW unfortunately doesn't count shells [a huge issue that we dream to resolve one day]. So we need to design for this issue. We need the Ukrainian Tubes to fire less shells, a lot less, than the Russians. Any suggestions?

One idea is to separate the Russian tubes out of the parent units and into separate units, while the Ukraine tubes stay in parent units. This gives the Russians a lot more tubes to fire each turn. Ukraine would still have its higher level separate artillery units for barrage and counter-battery use.

Another idea is to have both sides' corps/army level tubes in separate units, while giving Ukraine's artillery units about 1/3 the supply that Russian artillery units get.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Ardi wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:23 pm
sPzAbt653 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:59 pm
all Ukrainian units in scenario have much lesser number of tanks, than they should have
Just checking, that you have the latest, because the Ukrainian TO&E's were updated:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=388062
Is v. 1.20 the latest? I play on it. and it still has this issue. Downloaded it a week ago from the first post in Ukraine 2022 Beta thread.
Yes, v1.20 is the latest. Can you give me one example so I can check it out? Thanks.

[v1.21 will be posted tomorrow. It has:
Russian force reorganized into Battalion Tactical Group [BTG] structure.
Ukraine Artillery updates. [cathar1244]
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

sPzAbt653 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:49 am
Ardi wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:23 pm
sPzAbt653 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:59 pm

Just checking, that you have the latest, because the Ukrainian TO&E's were updated:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=388062
Is v. 1.20 the latest? I play on it. and it still has this issue. Downloaded it a week ago from the first post in Ukraine 2022 Beta thread.
Yes, v1.20 is the latest. Can you give me one example so I can check it out? Thanks.

[v1.21 will be posted tomorrow. It has:
Russian force reorganized into Battalion Tactical Group [BTG] structure.
Ukraine Artillery updates. [cathar1244]
Image
Image
Image
sPzAbt653 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:40 am Another idea is to have both sides' corps/army level tubes in separate units, while giving Ukraine's artillery units about 1/3 the supply that Russian artillery units get.
I think this is the best idea, if it's possible. Keep UA artillery units separate (I think on brigade level as well), maybe give them a bit better accuracy (again, if possible), but much less supply, to represent ordnance shortage.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by cathar1244 »

sPzAbt653 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:18 am I can't find these in the Wiki OOB, where do you see them?

45th Artillery Brigade (Reserve)[29]
38th Artillery Brigade[30]
15th Rocket Artillery Regiment "Kyiv" (BM-30 Smerch), Drogobych

I think maybe the 6th Artillery Training Regiment will be left out of the scenario, because it is a training unit?
They are listed here, unsure how accurate it is-- (source notes link to Ukrainian sources)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Fo ... _(Ukraine)

Agree about the training regiment.

I note the French version of the article does not mention the 45th Brigade.

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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

@Ardi
Thanks for posting the screen shots. Something is fouled up, I must have posted the wrong version last time because all of those Ukraine tank #'s had been adjusted. Terribly sorry, I'm usually pretty good about keeping things straight. I'll make sure it is proper when it is posted tomorrow [v1.21].
I think this is the best idea, if it's possible. Keep UA artillery units separate (I think on brigade level as well), maybe give them a bit better accuracy (again, if possible), but much less supply, to represent ordnance shortage.
I too like this, but it is problematic to arrange it. We'll see what can be done.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by sPzAbt653 »

@Bill
Ah ok, I have that page on Ukraine Artillery as a source also. I made the call that if I couldn't find at least one other collaborating source that I would leave a unit out for now. I think there is too much conflicting data, in general, and some sources seem to relate to 2014-15. Not saying that is the case here, just in general.
I'll keep that list open [like several other things] for future consideration.
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Re: Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

Post by Ardi »

When I played for Ukraine, I've noticed that the map is quite empty for them. I understood why, when I've checked the Territorial Defence units. There are much fewer, than there should have been, and actually they helped Ukraine to cover up a lot of rear areas as well as to throw manpower on the front.
Each battalion consists of 4 companies of 3 platoons, so 36 rifle squads overall, plus recon platoon.
The only thing with them, is that these units are filled with mobilized, so they should have much less experience, as well as little heavy equipment, except some old MGs and RPGs (their wikipedia pages list only one mortar battery or AA platoon (probably meaning MANPADS) per full brigade, and not for all of them), and most likely no transport.
Also they should not immediately come online, since these units were virtually non-existent before the war, with only a skeleton crew on officers and NCOs, and were filled with mobilized after the start of it. So they should appear within few days, some maybe within a week from the start of the game. Same, I think, should be applied for the Reserve Corps brigades, but I'll write my thoughts on that later.

On the matter of their movement - the ones in non-attacked regions should stay put till the end of scenario (Ukrainian Parliament allowed the use of TDF outside of their parent regions only on May 3, 2022), others could be free to move, probaby.

Main source - TDF page of UA wiki - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0 ... 0%BD%D0%B8
as well as pages for each individual brigade:
100th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/100-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
101st - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/101-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
102nd - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/102-%D0%B ... %BD%D0%B0)
103rd - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/103-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
104th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/104-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
105th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/105-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
106th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/106-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
107th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/107-%D0%B ... %BD%D0%B0)
108th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/108-%D0%B ... %BD%D0%B0)
109th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/109-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
110th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/110-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
111th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/111-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
112th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/112-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
113th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/113-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
114th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/114-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
115th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/115-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
116th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/116-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
117th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/117-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
118th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/118-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
119th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/119-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
120th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/120-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
121st - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/121-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
122nd - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/122-%D0%B ... %BD%D0%B0)
123rd - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/123-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)
124th - https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/124-%D1%8 ... %BD%D0%B0)


Based on it I've also made a map for each brigade and battalion, so it would be simpler for you to put them in scenario. Tried to put each name exactly under the city where they are based, but sometimes they were too close, so you may need to check their position via Wiki-page of each brigade.
https://i.imgur.com/fwvPv7K.jpg

Note that all brigades with numbers 125th and more were formed later in the war, so I'll check them later about the creation date. Same goes for every TDF battalion with 200+ number.
I am also not sure, if Separate Rifle battalions, listed in the TDF wiki page, still existed in 2022, I'll dig in about them later.
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