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Remembering the old V for Victory, I am wondering if WEGO is only adapted to small time scales (half a day, day turns).

Playing mostly game of 1 week/turn, do you think WEGO may apply to an operational game like TOAW?

I don't see why it couldn't work on a week/turn time scale.

The trick, as I see it, is to represent how the units behave when the two sides contend for a resource, like occupation of a given piece of terrain (hex, whatever). Does one side move more quickly than the other or does it set up a meeting engagement type of battle ?

The other bit is the order in which units move, which can offer or deny opportunities for other units that move subsequently. Some kind of representation of formation leadership and unit proficiency, supply, and morale would be needed to determine the order of unit movement (or other unit actions in a turn).

Cheers

cathar1244 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:35 am I don't see why it couldn't work on a week/turn time scale.

The issue I am seeing is that a lot could happen in a week.

Let's take a breakthrough. You need to have the first units opening the front. Then, exploitation units could move. Are the exploitation units stopping at each enemy unit? Or, are they ignoring flanks? What do they do in case of counter attack?

The panel of orders must be important. Much more that I have seen in any game so far.

With day turns, there is less if combination to handle imo.

I think maybe the ten tactical rounds would make WEGO reasonable for a week long turn. The reason I don't like WEGO for some scales is that you spend time planning the turn, then the whole turn goes an average of 25% before everything ends due to contact. It's a waste of my gaming time.

Then the problem with ten tactical rounds is that the opponent has to sit and watch everything going to hell round after round without being able to respond.

sPzAbt653 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:50 pm I think maybe the ten tactical rounds would make WEGO reasonable for a week long turn. The reason I don't like WEGO for some scales is that you spend time planning the turn, then the whole turn goes an average of 25% before everything ends due to contact. It's a waste of my gaming time.

Then the problem with ten tactical rounds is that the opponent has to sit and watch everything going to hell round after round without being able to respond.

Perhaps precisely because you don't have enough conditional orders in any game. And don't forget: "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy". And WEGO is teaching you this.

For a simple example, suppose you have one week turns with movement allowances of 7. Move one and contact the enemy and stop until next turn. That's six days later. As a simulation it doesn't work.

For WEGO you need to have two players online simultaneously (unless you're playing the computer, which is increasingly not a thing). The duration of a typical wargame doesn't really support this.

The other concern I'd have with WEGO is that it exacerbates the unrealism of a single human being in charge of everything. In the real world, if you want a bunch of different units to co-ordinate in time as well as space, you have a whole office of staff working out when each unit needs to start, when it'll be ready, etc. You'll need a fair amount of support from the computer to do this in a WEGO game otherwise it becomes very cumbersome very quickly, which is no good if the clock is running all the time.

One player plans his turn. It's emailed to the second player who plans his turn. Then the turn is run. It's not an real time strategy type of game. Look at WEGO WWII: Stalingrad.

golden delicious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:01 pm The duration of a typical wargame doesn't really support this.

I wonder, just what is the duration of a typical wargame? And, what is typical? Whatever your answer, I bet you'll find plenty of people who dissagree.

Regards, RhinoBones

There are several war games that are WEGO and they are quite excellent games.

Desert War 1940-42
Stalingrad WEGO
Flashpoint Campaign Series
WITP-AE

Player One makes his plans sends to Player Two, Player Two makes his plans and executes the turn, after seeing the results he can only send back the turn, Player One reviews the playback and makes his plans, rinse and repeat.

Lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:30 pm One player plans his turn. It's emailed to the second player who plans his turn. Then the turn is run. It's not an real time strategy type of game. Look at WEGO WWII: Stalingrad.

OK so turn based with simultaneous execution. That's a recipe for fun, crazy things happening, but I don't think it will improve simulation.

rhinobones wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:38 am I wonder, just what is the duration of a typical wargame? And, what is typical? Whatever your answer, I bet you'll find plenty of people who dissagree.

Well there's a wide range.

I was thinking in comparison to the gonzo stuff that gets played a lot online, like Fortnite. The maximum length for these games is about thirty minutes. That's a duration that's well-suited to simultaneous play. Log in. Hey, wanna play? Kapow, kapow! Game over. What's for dinner?

I don't think you could play any serious wargame in less than a couple of hours. At the other end of the scale you have scenarios with hundreds of turns which correspondingly run to hundreds of hours.

More of a fundamental issue is that I have a very narrow window in which to play, and I seldom know in advance that I'm going to definitely be available, and the chance of it overlapping with one of the handful of people who I might want to play with is pretty microscopic. Years back I tried joining a Europa Universalis multiplayer game and, apart from the fact the game at the time was very mature and everyone was just leveraging exploits which meant the game was no longer fun, I found it very tedious having an appointment in my free time in the evening that I had to keep, and these days I wouldn't be able to make that sort of commitment at all.

golden delicious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:30 am

Lobster wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:30 pm One player plans his turn. It's emailed to the second player who plans his turn. Then the turn is run. It's not an real time strategy type of game. Look at WEGO WWII: Stalingrad.

OK so turn based with simultaneous execution. That's a recipe for fun, crazy things happening, but I don't think it will improve simulation.

At least this is preventing one player to replay its turn forever until the results are good.

golden delicious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:01 pm
The other concern I'd have with WEGO is that it exacerbates the unrealism of a single human being in charge of everything. In the real world, if you want a bunch of different units to co-ordinate in time as well as space, you have a whole office of staff working out when each unit needs to start, when it'll be ready, etc. You'll need a fair amount of support from the computer to do this in a WEGO game otherwise it becomes very cumbersome very quickly, which is no good if the clock is running all the time.

Yes that my point. In all the WEGO games I have played, there are not enough commands/conditions in order to simulate a long turn duration.

golden delicious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:36 am
I was thinking in comparison to the gonzo stuff that gets played a lot online, like Fortnite. The maximum length for these games is about thirty minutes. That's a duration that's well-suited to simultaneous play. Log in. Hey, wanna play? Kapow, kapow! Game over. What's for dinner?

This one is a board game but it is excellent:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/345 ... hird-reich

WW2 in four hours. Game over. What's for dinner?

ncc1701e wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:30 pm At least this is preventing one player to replay its turn forever until the results are good.

OK- but this guy is going to find a way to wreck your game no matter what, either by ghosting you the second the match stops going his way or by whatever other exploits exist in the game.

If you're making a serious time commitment, I recommend not playing a random in the first place, but someone you know or who has a positive reputation.

ncc1701e wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:34 pm This one is a board game but it is excellent:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/345 ... hird-reich

WW2 in four hours. Game over. What's for dinner?

Well, four hours is long for board games these days. A typical eurogame is designed to last 45-90 minutes- on the basis that a lot of people don't have much longer than that to hang around at the same time as other people

ncc1701e wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:30 pm
At least this is preventing one player to replay its turn forever until the results are good.

I thought PBEM++ prevented that?

golden delicious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:15 pm

ncc1701e wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:34 pm This one is a board game but it is excellent:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/345 ... hird-reich

WW2 in four hours. Game over. What's for dinner?

Well, four hours is long for board games these days. A typical eurogame is designed to last 45-90 minutes- on the basis that a lot of people don't have much longer than that to hang around at the same time as other people

Man back in the day we would arrive at around 6 pm and setup a mini-monster war game and play until 7 am the next day lol.