TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

[Duedman]

AA is just super weak and Strategic Bombers can "overfly" the intercept range of fighters.
Also 2 German + 1 Italien Stratbombers should wreak havoc vs unupgraded soviet cities and weak russian fighters.
Probably becoming a main tool in cracking a frontline.

In my upcoming YT match we will limit the use of Strategic Bombers to 1 per turn when attacking resources.

But I would like to ask again if it would be possible to correct the 3D counter for Corps Mechanized.
I think it is just an oversight. Currently for Germany "Div (Mechanized)" and "Corps (Mechanized)" both use the Scout Car model. While the vanilla counter for mechanized Infantry is unused.
It is correct for the minors.

That would be of great help!

2023-03-28 17_46_09-.jpg (14.72 KiB) Viewed 342 times

[Lothos]

Sadly, oftentimes what's best for the AI is not what's best for MP.

I think even in MP that AA being built on all the resources etc... should not be allowed.

It lets the defender do damage to the attacker with no damage being done to them.

As I mentioned, the second reason is to force Germany to use Fighters to cover their industry. This is needed so the allies can inflict damage to their air power and get Germany to use up their MPP(s).

[Lothos]

AA is just super weak and Strategic Bombers can "overfly" the intercept range of fighters.
Also 2 German + 1 Italien Stratbombers should wreak havoc vs unupgraded soviet cities and weak russian fighters.
Probably becoming a main tool in cracking a frontline.

In my upcoming YT match we will limit the use of Strategic Bombers to 1 per turn when attacking resources.

But I would like to ask again if it would be possible to correct the 3D counter for Corps Mechanized.
I think it is just an oversight. Currently for Germany "Div (Mechanized)" and "Corps (Mechanized)" both use the Scout Car model. While the vanilla counter for mechanized Infantry is unused.
It is correct for the minors.

That would be of great help!

2023-03-28 17_46_09-.jpg

I will put it on my notes to copy the mechanized from Vanilla to TRP. I see what you are suggesting and I can do it.

As for Strat Bombers and AA, the strategy for Russia is to build all your AA right away. Remember its really good at defense (especially against attacking armor) and acts as AA with a range of 2.

When I play the Allies, I build all the AA for Russia and focus on fighter tech. When retreating against Germany I keep my fighters far behind the lines so the Germans can not bomb them but they can do air cover against most of the cities in the rear. I use the AA units to cover areas along the front.

I suggest people try and just adjust their strategies, with the lower cost of planes in TRP I think you will find the game more energetic if you go with the design.

Try it and adjust your strategies.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Lothos.
I am good with all you say regarding this AA thing.
We will adjust. No problem we will adapt ourselves.

If you can fix the Inf mech 3d Sprite deal for Duedman, we are good to go to start our match and recording.

He's going to use 3d Sprites and I the NATO counters.
Cheers.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Ok Lothos
Duedman and I are going to start a MP match this weekend )
I as Allies and he as Axis.

We have some house-rules I'll post here. We trimmed and modified these down after a few weeks of discussion between us and some other folks.
We plan to bank quite a few turns for FoW and Research reveal reasons and haven't decided on an announcement nor schedule yet for things to go public.
Later we will post here on the forum and upload announcements on YT if all goes well.

WiE-TRP HOUSE RULES

1) No War Dec of USSR before April 1941 unless USSR mobilization reaches 90%

2) No Allied ships may ever use Kiel Canal. Allied land units may land and block.

3) No German attack on Low Countries till April 1940

4) Strategic Bombers can only attack a resource 1 time per turn. They may attack 2x
otherwise.

5) Finnish units may not enter any land hexes south of Riga-Moscow-Perm line. Finnish unit can enter anywhere in Norway and Sweden.

6) No Hungarian units may enter Romania before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania
No Romanian units in Hungary before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania.

7) No Allied 'Scando Gambit' on Oslo, Norway or Copenhagen, Denmark while those
two countries are neutral and or until France falls.

8) Special Forces/Marines special rule. Once amphibious landed SF units may reload by finding a port or wait 5 turns from a non port coastal hex.

9) No Axis strategic bombing of Liverpool

10) No Diplo into Majors

11) No Diplo in the Balkans until Barbarossa started. (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece.)

12) No Allied blocking of Gibraltar travel hexes (can put ships all around them but not right onto them)

13) Italian Navy is restricted to the Med until they are at war. Italian transports can go out if they are destined for Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and go straight there while Italy is neutral. No spotting with them.

[Lothos]

Put my recomendations in between

WiE-TRP HOUSE RULES

1) No War Dec of USSR before April 1941 unless USSR mobilization reaches 90%
--- Makes sense

2) No Allied ships may ever use Kiel Canal. Allied land units may land and block.
--- I had no idea Allied ships could use the Kiel Canal. Are you sure?

3) No German attack on Low Countries till April 1940
--- Makes sense

4) Strategic Bombers can only attack a resource 1 time per turn. They may attack 2x
otherwise.
--- Poopers, should be fine with letting them go with two attacks. I always leave 3 German Fighters (sometimes 4) and 4 AA guns covering the entire area while I do Barb. It is more than enough to cover some good ground. I also leave a leader or two to give them bonuses.

5) Finnish units may not enter any land hexes south of Riga-Moscow-Perm line. Finnish unit can enter anywhere in Norway and Sweden.
--- Why? Is their some sort of exploit I am not aware of?

6) No Hungarian units may enter Romania before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania
No Romanian units in Hungary before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania.
--- Makes sense Hungarians hated the Romania. I would amend the rule that no more than 7 Germany units could be within 10 hexes of the Soviet Border when Barb starts. Having the entire German army mass in Romania is a huge advantage and shortens their road to Stalingrad!

7) No Allied 'Scando Gambit' on Oslo, Norway or Copenhagen, Denmark while those
two countries are neutral and or until France falls.
--- Makes sense

8) Special Forces/Marines special rule. Once amphibious landed SF units may reload by finding a port or wait 5 turns from a non port coastal hex.
--- Hmm, not sure what to say on that one

9) No Axis strategic bombing of Liverpool
--- Does not matter the UK convoys auto move (by design) in the next turn and move to Glasgow so it has no effect. However I would allow it because the UK player should protect it with AA and Fighters (which is what I do every game). My suggestion is to remove this rule.

10) No Diplo into Majors
--- This rule is not needed as the mod does not allow you to diplo majors except for Vichy.

11) No Diplo in the Balkans until Barbarossa started. (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece.)
--- I can understand this, although it would be fun to go back and forth a little.

12) No Allied blocking of Gibraltar travel hexes (can put ships all around them but not right onto them)
--- Yea, I can most definately understand this rule! I been thinking of moving the hexes and having them only visible to the Axis side. The problem is then teaching the AI how to use them which is a pain in the ass.

13) Italian Navy is restricted to the Med until they are at war. Italian transports can go out if they are destined for Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and go straight there while Italy is neutral. No spotting with them.
--- Makes sense

My two cents embeded

[Taxman66]

Lothos, I think you misunderstand 4.
Strat Bombers can attack twice, they can't hit the same resource hex twice. Although a 2nd bomber could hit the same resource that the 1st bomber did.

[Lothos]

Lothos, I think you misunderstand 4.
Strat Bombers can attack twice, they can't hit the same resource hex twice. Although a 2nd bomber could hit the same resource that the 1st bomber did.

Oh, I would still not put that rule in. AA and Major power fighters can intercept twice.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Put my recomendations in between

WiE-TRP HOUSE RULES

1) No War Dec of USSR before April 1941 unless USSR mobilization reaches 90%
--- Makes sense

2) No Allied ships may ever use Kiel Canal. Allied land units may land and block.
--- I had no idea Allied ships could use the Kiel Canal. Are you sure?

3) No German attack on Low Countries till April 1940
--- Makes sense

4) Strategic Bombers can only attack a resource 1 time per turn. They may attack 2x
otherwise.
--- Poopers, should be fine with letting them go with two attacks. I always leave 3 German Fighters (sometimes 4) and 4 AA guns covering the entire area while I do Barb. It is more than enough to cover some good ground. I also leave a leader or two to give them bonuses.

5) Finnish units may not enter any land hexes south of Riga-Moscow-Perm line. Finnish unit can enter anywhere in Norway and Sweden.
--- Why? Is their some sort of exploit I am not aware of?

6) No Hungarian units may enter Romania before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania
No Romanian units in Hungary before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania.
--- Makes sense Hungarians hated the Romania. I would amend the rule that no more than 7 Germany units could be within 10 hexes of the Soviet Border when Barb starts. Having the entire German army mass in Romania is a huge advantage and shortens their road to Stalingrad!

7) No Allied 'Scando Gambit' on Oslo, Norway or Copenhagen, Denmark while those
two countries are neutral and or until France falls.
--- Makes sense

8) Special Forces/Marines special rule. Once amphibious landed SF units may reload by finding a port or wait 5 turns from a non port coastal hex.
--- Hmm, not sure what to say on that one

9) No Axis strategic bombing of Liverpool
--- Does not matter the UK convoys auto move (by design) in the next turn and move to Glasgow so it has no effect. However I would allow it because the UK player should protect it with AA and Fighters (which is what I do every game). My suggestion is to remove this rule.

10) No Diplo into Majors
--- This rule is not needed as the mod does not allow you to diplo majors except for Vichy.

11) No Diplo in the Balkans until Barbarossa started. (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece.)
--- I can understand this, although it would be fun to go back and forth a little.

12) No Allied blocking of Gibraltar travel hexes (can put ships all around them but not right onto them)
--- Yea, I can most definately understand this rule! I been thinking of moving the hexes and having them only visible to the Axis side. The problem is then teaching the AI how to use them which is a pain in the ass.

13) Italian Navy is restricted to the Med until they are at war. Italian transports can go out if they are destined for Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and go straight there while Italy is neutral. No spotting with them.
--- Makes sense

My two cents embeded

Rule 2 Yes total gamey exploit can be done by sending French throw away units on AVs and land on Kiel Hexes, then shove a ton of ships through for example. Kiel Canal would be blocked easily. Heck, a gaggle of landing craft that brought the Allies in would choke the canal. Goggle Map the Kiel Canal. Anyways, remember that container ship that blocked Suez a few years ago? 1 ship was all it took.
Duedman and I are sportsmen, and wouldn't do this, but we decided to codify it.

Rule 4 This came up because there's no ability to upgrade resources with AA. Also German and Italian strat bombers could easily cut RR links in the Soviet Union. Still, I'll chat with Duedman about this.

Rule 5 For historical and Finnish geopolitical reasons first. Also, in Gary Grigsby's WitE 1 and 2 plus many other board wargames I have played through the decades, Finland was restricted by rules similar to this. I never liked seeing Finnish units in France for example. However, some right-wing elements in Finland yearned for a 'Greater Finland'. Well, there are Finno-Ugric peoples across northern Russia clear through to the northern Urals. Komi, Nenets (Samoyed), Selkups, Nganasans, Vips, and Karelian peoples to name the most numerous.

Rule 8 Duedman and I don't like the mechanic of leapfrogging SF units. For example, landing..next turn loading at full supply...rinse and repeat. Can lead to some gamey moves. These units are 'special', but shouldn't be that special haha. We wanted some realism. Fight for a port or wait for awhile and then get extracted.

Rule 9 and 10. I just found out from someone else TRP has these covered. Yes we can strike these.

Rule 11. Its possible to keep Bulgaria especially out of the Axis. We want things to kind of flow historical up to a point

*I'll chat with Duedman especially about the strat bomber restrictions.
Thanks for the input.
I have a challenge on the server.
Cheerios

[Taxman66]

11. Maybe exempt Greece and Yugo from the list.
Though to be honest, I don't think Yugo is worth the effort to go after given her force pool make up in TRP.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

11. Maybe exempt Greece and Yugo from the list.
Though to be honest, I don't think Yugo is worth the effort to go after given her force pool make up in TRP.

I'll talk to Duedman about this. He just wrote 'No diplo in 'Balkans'. I added the countries. Its the Bulgaria deal that's houseruled in the ELO tourneys. I found out why from some folks.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Hello Lothos and anyone else interested.
Well Duedman and I started our production of a new multiplayer series of TRP-WiE. Duedman is happily crushing Poland and I am enjoying rattle-canning his U-boats.

We plan to start airing our episodes daily in early May. We will put up announcement vids with a schedule soon.
Included are example images of the thumbnails we will use, and a screenshot in YT studio as I do editing.

There will be links to each others channels and to the forum here for anyone interested in this excellent mod.
Thought we should give a small peek here.

Cheers
Mike aka 'Old Crow' Balthazor

[Lothos]

Hello Lothos and anyone else interested.
Well Duedman and I started our production of a new multiplayer series of TRP-WiE. Duedman is happily crushing Poland and I am enjoying rattle-canning his U-boats.

We plan to start airing our episodes daily in early May. We will put up announcement vids with a schedule soon.
Included are example images of the thumbnails we will use, and a screenshot in YT studio as I do editing.

There will be links to each others channels and to the forum here for anyone interested in this excellent mod.
Thought we should give a small peek here.

Cheers
Mike aka 'Old Crow' Balthazor

Sweet

[AshFall]

Fiddled around a bit just looking at stuff and noticed something:

Fighters can get ground attack weapons which improve ground attack, I assume thats intended.

This might not be: Tactical and medium bombers do not gain ground attack values from "ground attack weapons", they gain naval attack values from that tech. They -do- get ground attack values from "naval weapons" tech though.

Strat bombers and Mariteme bombers seem to gain the correct attack types from "naval" and "ground" techs respectively.

Might also be significant because Naval weapons go all the way to lvl 5, and ground attack weapons to lvl 4 currently?

[AshFall]

General question: What are the "hidden" modifiers to unit combat in the mod currently?

Such as armor being less effective in forests, cities or other maluses or bonuses like that.

Thanks!

[Taxman66]

The ground attack thing is relayed to the previous version where naval attack was listed first for TAC and MED bombers.

[Lothos]

Fiddled around a bit just looking at stuff and noticed something:

Fighters can get ground attack weapons which improve ground attack, I assume thats intended.

This might not be: Tactical and medium bombers do not gain ground attack values from "ground attack weapons", they gain naval attack values from that tech. They -do- get ground attack values from "naval weapons" tech though.

Strat bombers and Mariteme bombers seem to gain the correct attack types from "naval" and "ground" techs respectively.

Might also be significant because Naval weapons go all the way to lvl 5, and ground attack weapons to lvl 4 currently?

You are confused, please look again! The values are assigned properly with the techs.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Fiddled around a bit just looking at stuff and noticed something:

Fighters can get ground attack weapons which improve ground attack, I assume thats intended.

This might not be: Tactical and medium bombers do not gain ground attack values from "ground attack weapons", they gain naval attack values from that tech. They -do- get ground attack values from "naval weapons" tech though.

Strat bombers and Mariteme bombers seem to gain the correct attack types from "naval" and "ground" techs respectively.

Might also be significant because Naval weapons go all the way to lvl 5, and ground attack weapons to lvl 4 currently?

What the heck?
I got a MP match going and we are recording.
So Naval Weapons is ground attack and Ground Attack is for Naval?
Jeezus.
I gotta tell my opponent. We are still in late 1939 but this bit may end the whole schmoe if this is correct.
I don't know if either of us is going to want to restart all over again as both hands have been revealed with a few things on both sides.

[Lothos]

Fiddled around a bit just looking at stuff and noticed something:

Fighters can get ground attack weapons which improve ground attack, I assume thats intended.

This might not be: Tactical and medium bombers do not gain ground attack values from "ground attack weapons", they gain naval attack values from that tech. They -do- get ground attack values from "naval weapons" tech though.

Strat bombers and Mariteme bombers seem to gain the correct attack types from "naval" and "ground" techs respectively.

Might also be significant because Naval weapons go all the way to lvl 5, and ground attack weapons to lvl 4 currently?

What the heck?
I got a MP match going and we are recording.
So Naval Weapons is ground attack and Ground Attack is for Naval?
Jeezus.
I gotta tell my opponent. We are still in late 1939 but this bit may end the whole schmoe if this is correct.
I don't know if either of us is going to want to restart all over again as both hands have been revealed with a few things on both sides.

No, he is wrong. I just looked myself.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Fiddled around a bit just looking at stuff and noticed something:

Fighters can get ground attack weapons which improve ground attack, I assume thats intended.

This might not be: Tactical and medium bombers do not gain ground attack values from "ground attack weapons", they gain naval attack values from that tech. They -do- get ground attack values from "naval weapons" tech though.

Strat bombers and Mariteme bombers seem to gain the correct attack types from "naval" and "ground" techs respectively.

Might also be significant because Naval weapons go all the way to lvl 5, and ground attack weapons to lvl 4 currently?

What the heck?
I got a MP match going and we are recording.
So Naval Weapons is ground attack and Ground Attack is for Naval?
Jeezus.
I gotta tell my opponent. We are still in late 1939 but this bit may end the whole schmoe if this is correct.
I don't know if either of us is going to want to restart all over again as both hands have been revealed with a few things on both sides.

No, he is wrong. I just looked myself.

Can you show some screenshots to confirm please?