Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Thoughts from the dev team on Strategic Command's features.
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Robert24
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Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by Robert24 »

[left][/left]The YouTube channel ‘Military History for Adults’ recently uploaded a video discussing this subject.

The channel provides this introduction:

“Franco was supported by Germany and Italy during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). Yet, he didn't join the Axis during the Second World War? What were the reasons for this? Was he reluctant to join or did the Axis didn't want him? Did the Allies lure him away with threats or provided support to stay out? What about the Blue Division? Was Gibraltar not important enough? Why was Operation Felix cancelled?”

At the end of the video a summary of why Spain stayed out of the war given:

Poor Spanish military and economic situation.
German reluctance to let Spanish join.
British diplomacy to keep Spanish out of Axis.
Italian military failures.

I recommend a viewing of the video, and a consideration given to the current design of SC3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiG0wV1RVVs&t=309s
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I haven't watched that video, but these are the notes that I have gathered from various internet sources as I attempt to build something into the 653N Mod:

1. After the Fall of France. The Spanish Ambassador to Berlin had presented a memorandum in which Franco declared he was "ready under certain conditions to enter the war on the side of Germany and Italy". Anti-British and anti-French propaganda was launched in the Spanish media that demanded French Morocco, Cameroon and the return of Gibraltar. On 19 June 1940, Franco pressed along a message to Hitler saying he wanted to enter the war, but Hitler was annoyed at Franco's demand for the French colony of Cameroon, which had been German before World War I, and which Hitler was planning on taking back.

2. Aug 1940. A major problem emerged in that the Germans demanded air and naval bases in Spanish Morocco and the Canaries, which Franco was completely opposed to.

In September, when the Royal Air Force had defeated the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, Hitler promised Spain help in return for its active intervention. Hitler promised that "Germany would do everything in its power to help Spain" and would recognise Spanish claims to French territory in Morocco, in exchange for a share of Moroccan raw materials. Falangist media agitated for irredentism, claiming for Spain the regions of Catalonia and the Basque Country which were under French administration.

3. Oct. 1940. Hitler and Franco met only once at Hendaye, France on 23 October 1940 to fix the details of an alliance. Franco asked for too much from Hitler. In exchange for entering the war alongside the alliance of Germany and Italy, Franco, among many things, demanded heavy fortification of the Canary Islands as well as large quantities of grain, fuel, armed vehicles, military aircraft and other armaments. Hitler threatened Franco with a possible annexation of Spanish territory by Vichy France. No agreement was reached. Spain relied upon oil supplies from the United States. Any Spanish intervention would rely upon German ability to supply oil. Some of Germany's own activity relied upon captured French oil reserves, so additional needs from Spain were unhelpful. In order to keep Vichy "on-side", the proposed territorial changes in Morocco became a potential embarrassment.

4. In December 1940, Hitler contacted Franco via a letter sent by the German ambassador to Spain and returned to the issue of Gibraltar. Hitler requested the passage of several divisions of German troops through Spain to attack Gibraltar. Franco refused, citing the danger that the United Kingdom still presented to Spain and the Spanish colonies. Franco told Hitler that he wanted to wait until Britain "was on the point of collapse". In a second diplomatic letter, Hitler got tougher and offered grain and military supplies to Spain as an inducement. By this time, however, Italian troops were being routed by the British in Cyrenaica and Italian East Africa, and the Royal Navy had displayed its freedom of action in Italian waters and neutralized the Vichy French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir in French Algeria. The UK was clearly not finished. Franco responded "that the fact has left the circumstances of October far behind" and "the Protocol then agreed must now be considered outmoded".

Franco met privately once with Italian leader Benito Mussolini in Bordighera, Italy on 12 February 1941 at Hitler's request. Hitler hoped that Mussolini could persuade Franco to enter the war.

So far it's kinda complicated and takes a lot of events, and I have to try and keep it fairly un-complicated so the players don't get confused [;)]
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Robert24
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by Robert24 »

Great information!
The video offers additional historical detail.
These could be folded into SC3 and mods like yours.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Additional historical detail ! I will definitely watch.

So far for 653N, I've got a DE for the Germans to accept Franco's offer to join the Axis after France falls. Why wouldn't anyone just automatically take it is the hurdle. Currently, the results of YES to this are:
Spain will get French Morocco [no German or Italian troops may enter or German NM goes down by 5000, Italian by 2500].
No German or Italian troops may enter the Canaries or German NM goes down by 5000, Italian by 2500].
Spain gets Cameroon [not on map, so no effect] and German morale goes down 5000.
Spain gets Gibraltar.
Spain gets 30 MPP's per turn from Germany for the duration of the war. [In 653N, Spain only generates 15 MPP, I think].

If the German player says NO to the above, then later a similar DE will be available, with slightly harsher penalties. If the German player says NO to this second DE concerning Spanish entry, then a third one may become available if conditions are right. Both the second and third ones only appear if Spain reaches 80% Axis leaning. This is to keep Spain from ever joining the Axis by Diplomacy alone [after any NO, Spain will go towards the Allies by 30-50%] [;)]
KorutZelva
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by KorutZelva »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Additional historical detail ! I will definitely watch.

So far for 653N, I've got a DE for the Germans to accept Franco's offer to join the Axis after France falls. Why wouldn't anyone just automatically take it is the hurdle. Currently, the results of YES to this are:
Spain will get French Morocco [no German or Italian troops may enter or German NM goes down by 5000, Italian by 2500].
No German or Italian troops may enter the Canaries or German NM goes down by 5000, Italian by 2500].
Spain gets Cameroon [not on map, so no effect] and German morale goes down 5000.
Spain gets Gibraltar.
Spain gets 30 MPP's per turn from Germany for the duration of the war. [In 653N, Spain only generates 15 MPP, I think].

If the German player says NO to the above, then later a similar DE will be available, with slightly harsher penalties. If the German player says NO to this second DE concerning Spanish entry, then a third one may become available if conditions are right. Both the second and third ones only appear if Spain reaches 80% Axis leaning. This is to keep Spain from ever joining the Axis by Diplomacy alone [after any NO, Spain will go towards the Allies by 30-50%] [;)]

I like tied national morale to unit presence since its true major power kept a measure of independence and were not about to garrison each other cities willy-nilly. (Although it would be better on the receiving end to get the drop rather than the occupier... in this case it would require Spain to be a major). Access could be granted if certain condition are met like 'German can bolster italy defense if Lybia is lost' or 'Germany can enter Spain if they bribe Franco to allow Operation Felix'
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Agree with you, and for some more detailed details [:)] The Morale drop to Germany for their units entering Morocco or the Canaries is because Franco forbid it. We all know that Hitler would agree to anything and then ignore it later if if he so desired, so I would think that if this Spanish-German agreement had happened historically, that Hitler would have entered Morocco or landed in the Canaries if he wanted to. What could Franco do ... declare war on Germany ? So, in the SC3 world, the NM penalty to Germany for doing so may not be a proper thing to do, but there must be game consequence to wrongful acts, otherwise it becomes bedlam!

We only have one slot available for a major, and I know others have also advocated for Spain, but I've got an event in 653N that requires otherwise. Many may get up-in-arms over this, but there is an option for the UK to sign an armistice, if game conditions are worse for the UK than they were during The Cabinet Crisis. As there has to be a minimum of one belligerent from each side at all times, I opted to make Canada the final Major.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Thoughts on Spanish Belligerency

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Preparing to watch that video, maybe I'm daft but I don't see the guys name that does the video, although he claims his Educational Background is : Master of Arts in History from the University of Salzburg (Austria),
Bachelor and Master of Science in Computer Science from the University of Salzburg (Austria),
Internship at the Military Research Institute (Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt) in Potsdam (Germany)
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