Balance and Difficulty

[Benedict151]

Hello all

Please use this thread for your comments on Strategic Command's balance and level of difficulty

regards
Ben Wilkins

[TheBattlefield]

A question of balance:

I once peeked in the Loop Events. For Gibraltar there are only Axis entries. On the map the loop entrances are marked with "Axis only". In case of conquest of Gibraltar through the axis, this means (probably) an absolute lockdown for naval units of the Allies. Naturally, this can also be a strategic objective for the Axis side, but at the same time feels a little unbalanced as long as the Allies did not also have the possibility of a total blocking (without use of naval units). In case of a strategic change of ownership in Gibraltar: how about unlocking the use of this loops for the other side by using decision dummy events (Aligment Position)?

[BillRunacre]

I have considered such a loop via Gibraltar for the Allies, though it would have proven far trickier because the Germans were able from April 1942 to monitor traffic through the Gibraltar Strait with a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations, with nine of these stations on the Spanish coast and the rest in Morocco (the Germans made use of their good relations with Spain).

Coupled with German control of Gibraltar it would have been extremely hard for Allied shipping to sneak through, which is why I'm reluctant to allow it for the Allies.

[TheBattlefield]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

I have considered such a loop via Gibraltar for the Allies, though it would have proven far trickier because the Germans were able from April 1942 to monitor traffic through the Gibraltar Strait with a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations, with nine of these stations on the Spanish coast and the rest in Morocco (the Germans made use of their good relations with Spain).

Coupled with German control of Gibraltar it would have been extremely hard for Allied shipping to sneak through, which is why I'm reluctant to allow it for the Allies.

OK. I did not expect so much influence of the "real history" at this point. Very interesting. I just think about a German/Spanish decision event, regarding the "infra-red surveillance ship stations" with a paired and randomly based strength event (scripted coastal bombers). That would be a good compromise between historical reference and enhanced gameplay. I had written a similar script for the Allies in my mod before I decided to generally open the Gibraltar passage through an "free" sea square and give completely control to the respective navies and airfleets of each side. Thanks for the explanation, Bill! [:)]

[gwgardner]

In the multiplayer between me (Allies) and MrsLobodan I think we have come to a mutual conclusion that the Allies may be overpowered early on in France. The differences playing human vs human as opposed to an Allied AI are numerous, but one important difference is the likelihood that the human Allied will go on the offensive more. My French and BEF have taken a heavy toll on the Germans, including their panzers, to the point that the Germans are hard-put to merely stay reinforced.

Add to this what appears to be perhaps too much CV power vs land targets. I just took one of the German panzer units down 4 strength points with CV strikes from 5 hexes away. Seems unrealistic. The German intercepts had already been used (renewing the consideration of whether air units should have more strikes).

Of course MrsLobodan will have his own opinions on all this.

[TheBattlefield]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

In the multiplayer between me (Allies) and MrsLobodan I think we have come to a mutual conclusion that the Allies may be overpowered early on in France. The differences playing human vs human as opposed to an Allied AI are numerous, but one important difference is the likelihood that the human Allied will go on the offensive more. My French and BEF have taken a heavy toll on the Germans, including their panzers, to the point that the Germans are hard-put to merely stay reinforced.

Add to this what appears to be perhaps too much CV power vs land targets. I just took one of the German panzer units down 4 strength points with CV strikes from 5 hexes away. Seems unrealistic. The German intercepts had already been used (renewing the consideration of whether air units should have more strikes).

Of course MrsLobodan will have his own opinions on all this.

Oh, indeed. Attack values of +1 Hard and +1 Soft makes them hell in multiplayer. And the Allies have a lot of them. I have made quite good experiences with the settings 0 Hard/1 Soft. With the new engine even 0.5 for Soft Attack is possible.

[BillRunacre]

Agreed, this makes more sense in a game involving Pacific island hopping where Carrier attacks can be crucial to getting a lodegement (as a game function where no other air support might be in range) but much less so in the European Theater.

So I don't have a problem with reducing their attack values to 0 against ground targets.

I wonder though whether it makes sense for this to increase with research from 0 to 1 so that later in the game when units might have AA upgrades, Carrier attacks don't fall behind.

The only thing I can think of would be a 0.5 increase in ground attack values per Naval Weaponry upgrade. This means they can increase to a maximum attack value of 1, which isn't excessive.

I realize that the Naval Weaponry research field is a little off target, but the Advanced Aircraft one goes up to a potential of 5 levels and so it would put them on ground attack values of 2.5 which is probably excessive.

Does that sound better?

[Ason]

Yes I Agree about the CV's, and If I'm not mistaken you have about 3 of them? They are very annoying, germans can hardly gain air superiority.

But I think there are some more problems with the Battle for France. First is Skill and number of allied units. it's next to impossible to break through the french line because of the equal skill of allied units. Even the german tank groups are nearly equal to armies and they even have a hard time against corps. Also even if a break-through is achieved it's quickly isolated and stopped by the huge numbers of allied units.

I also think there is an imbalance when it comes to MPP's. as Axis I get about 250 MPP's/turn (which feels alot less than what I get vs AI on expert level, not sure though). It's only enough to reinforce a couple of my many damaged units. The french seem to get the same or more, but they don't have to carry out an offensive :/

Basically I feel like the small area to maneuever, equal skill and numbers, and with allied air superiority, it's extremely hard to achieve victory anywhere close to the real life date. If I'm not mistaken I started the offensive in march 1940 and it's now somewhere around august 1940. And I'm only halfway to Paris.

Only clear mistake I've made so far imo is not using the airborne units to cut of the maginot line, but even if I did, the slow advance of my main force would never had time to link up with them.
Gwgardner now also has the units from the maginot line to defend Paris and I don't see any chance of victory before the end of 1940..

I might just be a very bad player but here is what I think are the main problems with the Battle of France:

1. Skill between germans and French is almost the same.

2. Too small area to maneuver. If there would be more space to maneuver I would have no problem with the equal strenght of units, but it just comes down to a very slow grind towards Paris.

3. Numbers of allied units. The allies are able to put up a thick wall of units all along the front.

4. German units but especially Tank Groups are extremely weak.

5. Huge allied air superiority with the CV's. Without the CV's it's about 50/50, which I guess is acceptable.

6. Amount of German MPP too little. For half a year I only managed to reinforce a couple of units each turn(always left with more damaged units), nothing else for upgrades or new research..

[bbragnar]

I feel similar to Mrslobodan.

Also, I have been unable to make much headway in the naval battle as Germany or Italy. The AI is very good at find my sub & ships and prosecuting them.

1. Agree. There doesn't seem to a drop off in "morale" when the Germans come through the low countries.

2. Agree "It just comes down to a very slow grind towards Paris." The AI would use planes to block my assaulting force. My tank groups would be unable to destroy a air force unit in town with both of their attacks.

3. Agree. "Numbers of allied units. The allies are able to put up a thick wall of units all along the front."

4. Agree "German units but especially Tank Groups are extremely weak."

5. Agree. My air units would get worked over by the French and British Air Force even at advanced air level 1.

6. Agree "Amount of German MPP too little." I would also add that I haven't figured out what to do with the Italians. If I reinforce their navy, I have nothing left. Then in all of my games their navy gets wiped out.

[sPzAbt653]

I don't know much, but I think if you hide the Italian Navy in ports then they won't get wiped out. You might want to try that next time to see what results you get.

[TheBattlefield]

I think the distinction between multyplayer and solo play should be worked out a little more clearly, right? In solo play many of the above findings do not apply. In the most difficult setting the CV attack rarely on land units. My Regio Marina inflicted heavy losses the Royal Navy. The Air Force of the Allies is very strong, but no challenge no fun I think. The troops of Poland and France are positioned meaningfully and balanced. If I had I known of the Norway-gift, Paris would probably already fallen in my hands one month earlier. One big difference is clear in the case of the BEF. The AI let them run across the Channel in the first contact with the enemy. In a multiplayer game this is not likely to happen. I can not allow myself a judgment about the multiplayer features of the game. I therefore recommend a separate multiplayer thread. Matrix Staff?

[Ason]

Yeah, there's a big difference between multiplayer and singleplayer.


Anyone else feel like air units are too powerful when defending against ground units? Many times I had tank units and mechanized units engage air units with equal losses or no losses at all. Air units should be much more vulnerable to attacks from ground units imo.

[BillRunacre]

With regards to air units holding out against attack by land units including Tank Groups, the stats are set that the air units should take a very severe battering.

Are there any particular circumstances where you've noticed air units doing well when attacked?

For instance does it apply to only one air unit type, the terrain they are occupying, their upgrade levels, or anything else?

It should be the case that only the terrain should make any difference, but not enough to significantly alter the end result.

I ran a few tests and I have been able to destroy the air units very easily, even with French Armies at strength 5, which is why I wonder if there are specific circumstances causing this.

Thanks

Bill

[BillRunacre]

I've jotted down a few thoughts on some uses of the Italian fleet.

If supported by air units (especially German Tactical Bombers upgraded with Naval Weaponry and HQ support) then they should have the potential to give Allied ships a hard time.

- Escort reinforcements to Libya.
- Protect Italy's shores from invasion.
- Support the bombardment and conquest of Malta.
- Intercept Allied sea movements through the Mediterranean.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: bbragnar

I feel similar to Mrslobodan.

Also, I have been unable to make much headway in the naval battle as Germany or Italy. The AI is very good at find my sub & ships and prosecuting them.

Thanks for the feedback. [:)]

I think there is a bug with Carriers automatically spotting Subs in Silent mode. Hopefully we'll have an answer on that soon.

ORIGINAL: bbragnar
1. Agree. There doesn't seem to a drop off in "morale" when the Germans come through the low countries.

There is, but it's possible that it's not severe enough. It is higher than in the past so I had hoped it would have been more noticeable.

ORIGINAL: bbragnar
5. Agree. My air units would get worked over by the French and British Air Force even at advanced air level 1.

I will be making some changes to make Tactical Bombers suffer less damage from interception.

German Fighters themselves should be faring ok in air combat with their Allied counterparts?

[BillRunacre]

I recommend that Germany invests a second chit in Heavy Tanks asap, as this will virtually guarantee being able to upgrade the Tank Groups to level 1 prior to invading France, and coupled with their 2 strikes and reduced damage suffered by German Bombers in future, this should make it a bit easier.

[Ason]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

With regards to air units holding out against attack by land units including Tank Groups, the stats are set that the air units should take a very severe battering.

Are there any particular circumstances where you've noticed air units doing well when attacked?

For instance does it apply to only one air unit type, the terrain they are occupying, their upgrade levels, or anything else?

It should be the case that only the terrain should make any difference, but not enough to significantly alter the end result.

I ran a few tests and I have been able to destroy the air units very easily, even with French Armies at strength 5, which is why I wonder if there are specific circumstances causing this.

Thanks

Bill

I haven't noticed any difference between different types of air units, all of them seem to be very good defensively.

Here is the latest one, although compared to previous engagements this was a "nice" one for me..

The tac bomber was at 4 strenght, my tank group needed two hits to kill...

[Ostwindflak]

The Morale, Readiness, and Supply of your Panzer Group is probably playing a big part in these results. Those numbers are gross for a German Armored formation. [:'(]

Your guys need to rest once in awhile too, they aren't the supermen the Fuhrer makes them out to be. [:D]

[Ason]

No time to rest[:D](seriously) ..I was really racing for all objectives to try to reach them on historical dates, but couldn't make it at all unfortunately..

I noticed he didn't have the best stats, but the enemy isn't that good either. It just feels like it should have an easier time with a frikkin air unit with 4 strenght points(!)[:D] But I don't know, maybe everything is fine and I just have to rest them.

[TheBattlefield]

After several battles with the anti-tank units, I have noted that these troops behave as an independent infantry corps with enhanced AT properties. If that was intended, everything is fine.

If this unit was more intended as a supporting tank destroyer, then his defensive values ​​should drastically reduced for soft targets. The attack values ​​in this area should also be somewhat reduced. The attack values ​​against tanks should not inferior to those of the main battle tank. The defensive values ​​against hard targets should be slightly below the tank groups. And voila: a nasty surprise for the careless tank driver and still unsuitable as unprotected front unit.