Yugoslavia

[havoc1371]

The going theme for Axis players seems to be to attack their Yugoslavian ally as soon as feasible, despite it being 45% pro Axis. This is gamey as players are using pre knowledge of the coup to their advantage. I would suggest that invading a pro Axis Yugoslavia before the coup trigger a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungry, but they are generally already allies of Germany by the time they invade. There should be penalties for invading any country that is pro your side at the time of the DoW.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

The going theme for Axis players seems to be to attack their Yugoslavian ally as soon as feasible, despite it being 45% pro Axis. This is gamey as players are using pre knowledge of the coup to their advantage. I would suggest that invading a pro Axis Yugoslavia before the coup trigger a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungry, but they are generally already allies of Germany by the time they invade. There should be penalties for invading any country that is pro your side at the time of the DoW.

House-ruling this has been done before, (No Axis DoW on pro-Axis Yugoslavia) but of course that depends on what kind of flavor both players want for that particular match.
(Historical, Semi-Historical, Let's Walk on the Wild Side)

[Taxman66]

Isn't it like WiE where Russia gets a Mobility boost out of a preemptive GE attack?

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

keep the operation small enough, but get the job done

[Taxman66]

And don't let your superiors know what is going on...

Kelly's Heroes.jpg (363.74 KiB) Viewed 448 times

[MKmark]

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

Exactly what i done..thx F SC.

au revoir

good film.

[havoc1371]

Isn't it like WiE where Russia gets a Mobility boost out of a preemptive GE attack?

None that I see pop up as a message block. You'd think that Germany suddenly invading what seems to be an ally nation would have a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as well as Stalin.

[El_Condoro]

There might be others, too, but mobilization1.txt scripts have the following moves towards the Allies when the Axis DoW Yugoslavia (once only):
Greece 30-45%
Turkey 5-10%
USSR 5-10%

[Umeu]

Isn't it like WiE where Russia gets a Mobility boost out of a preemptive GE attack?

None that I see pop up as a message block. You'd think that Germany suddenly invading what seems to be an ally nation would have a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as well as Stalin.

Russia mobilizes by about 15% if Germany invades Yugoslavia. But Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania should already have joined Axis before Germany even invades Yugoslavia (as usually the best position for it is to do it from Hungarian and Romanian territory.), so they won't change their alliance anymore. I guess it should just be a NM penalty for Germany then (to simulate the shock and anger this attack causes in aforementioned countries), similar to the penalty the USA gets when it attacks Central and South American countries.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Isn't it like WiE where Russia gets a Mobility boost out of a preemptive GE attack?

None that I see pop up as a message block. You'd think that Germany suddenly invading what seems to be an ally nation would have a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as well as Stalin.

Russia mobilizes by about 15% if Germany invades Yugoslavia. But Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania should already have joined Axis before Germany even invades Yugoslavia (as usually the best position for it is to do it from Hungarian and Romanian territory.), so they won't change their alliance anymore. I guess it should just be a NM penalty for Germany then (to simulate the shock and anger this attack causes in aforementioned countries), similar to the penalty the USA gets when it attacks Central and South American countries.

A modest NM penalty for Germany if it attacks a pro-Axis Yugoslavia sounds like a good proposal, and precludes a house-rule.
Also, it gives Germany the option to do it or not, instead of no option if this house rule is used> 'No War-Dec a pro-Axis Yugoslavia'.
Another can of worms to kick: Germany attacking a pro-Axis Franco Spain right after the fall of France 1940 That one really chaps my hide, possibly because I haven't figured out a way to counter it haha.

[Umeu]

None that I see pop up as a message block. You'd think that Germany suddenly invading what seems to be an ally nation would have a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as well as Stalin.

Russia mobilizes by about 15% if Germany invades Yugoslavia. But Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania should already have joined Axis before Germany even invades Yugoslavia (as usually the best position for it is to do it from Hungarian and Romanian territory.), so they won't change their alliance anymore. I guess it should just be a NM penalty for Germany then (to simulate the shock and anger this attack causes in aforementioned countries), similar to the penalty the USA gets when it attacks Central and South American countries.

A modest NM penalty for Germany if it attacks a pro-Axis Yugoslavia sounds like a good proposal, and precludes a house-rule.
Also, it gives Germany the option to do it or not, instead of no option if this house rule is used> 'No War-Dec a pro-Axis Yugoslavia'.
Another can of worms to kick: Germany attacking a pro-Axis Franco Spain right after the fall of France 1940 That one really chaps my hide, possibly because I haven't figured out a way to counter it haha.

doesn't that greatly increase US mobilization though? or only if they threaten Gibraltar? (which I guess they must since otherwise Allies will create a bridgehead there.)

[Tanaka]

None that I see pop up as a message block. You'd think that Germany suddenly invading what seems to be an ally nation would have a negative effect on Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as well as Stalin.

Russia mobilizes by about 15% if Germany invades Yugoslavia. But Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania should already have joined Axis before Germany even invades Yugoslavia (as usually the best position for it is to do it from Hungarian and Romanian territory.), so they won't change their alliance anymore. I guess it should just be a NM penalty for Germany then (to simulate the shock and anger this attack causes in aforementioned countries), similar to the penalty the USA gets when it attacks Central and South American countries.

A modest NM penalty for Germany if it attacks a pro-Axis Yugoslavia sounds like a good proposal, and precludes a house-rule.
Also, it gives Germany the option to do it or not, instead of no option if this house rule is used> 'No War-Dec a pro-Axis Yugoslavia'.
Another can of worms to kick: Germany attacking a pro-Axis Franco Spain right after the fall of France 1940 That one really chaps my hide, possibly because I haven't figured out a way to counter it haha.

Hey I resemble that remark!

[MKmark]

U have 18 months to get Yugos by diplomacy and you get 5 units that fight strong

so Barbarrossa without with yugos in your side is easer and note;..

even if germans do well in barbarrossa if japan is at war with russia in manchukuo there is a chance that a soviet unit surrender to japan and japan will take URSS.

Dedicated to fans above..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SWdff6tgio

[havoc1371]

U have 18 months to get Yugos by diplomacy and you get 5 units that fight strong

so Barbarrossa without with yugos in your side is easer and note;..

even if germans do well in barbarrossa if japan is at war with russia in manchukuo there is a chance that a soviet unit surrender to japan and japan will take URSS.

Dedicated to fans above..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SWdff6tgio

I've tried that in more than a few games and generally it fails, even though I invest fully in diplomacy from when Poland falls till the coup. I think out of about 8 attempts, I've succeeded twice. Even when the Allies don't counter with diplomacy. All it takes is a few single digit increases instead of double and you won't make it in time. Even hit the 90% at the end of my turn, only immediately followed by the announcement of the coup! Not worth the investment it cost you as it lowers your prep for Barbarossa by at least 500 mpp's or more over the course of those turns.

[havoc1371]

I would suggest two things. 1) add a mobilization penalty for Hungary, Bulgaria, and Romania, for attacking before the coup. 2) Have some chance of failure of the coup, so its not an automatic for the Allies, but then also don't make Yugoslavia automatically become a Axis minor if they don't invest in the coup event. That way, the Allies have a potential incentive not to back it because it might have a slim chance of failure and cause Yugoslavia to become an Axis minor (and an incentive for the Axis player to wait and see), and by not backing the coup , Yugoslavia would remain at 45% pro Axis (or what level it's currently at), requiring the Axis to commit to diplomacy to bring them in.

[MKmark]

IN case i invest full on research ....(only Germany, buy tanks at cero) and diplomatic (japan and italy too) so if the IA dont give researchs give Diplomatic sucess, vichy goes to Italy to invest.