Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Stop here if you are eager to try in advance new patches! Please note that these patches are not compatible with the Steam version of the game.

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Don_Kiyote
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26c (3 april 2024)

Post by Don_Kiyote »

solops wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:46 pm Even if the city could build regular farms, it seems to prefer domed farms
Do you mean the auto-built 'Domed' facilities versus 'Agricultural' (open air) facilities choice seems off?

Yes, Ive seen the AI and Private Economy (also an AI) err towards domed, but not always. I like planets with distinct seasons, so it's always made sense, and latitudes easily allowing year-round open air agriculture had the right facility. Also, I remember this issue mentioned in a patch note about six months ago, something like "AI will now correctly build the best farming type for the hex conditions".

No problems with population use though, Salops?
mattpilot
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26c (3 april 2024)

Post by mattpilot »

Still going on ... in the one city i first observed it, i just kept disbanding them (they didn't have the population to fully staff it all), bar a few. Somehow at around 30-35k pop i then noticed an actual farm dome (not a stead). And then it stopped.

But a different settlement with around 20k pop is now blooming with dome-steads and i'm disbanding them there all the time. Again, insufficient pop for all public and private jobs ... but i guess they need food? I dont know -> plenty public food available.

I also did increase sales tax from 0% to 50% in hopes of them slowing down (i dont know what i expected to happen).
mattpilot
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26c (3 april 2024)

Post by mattpilot »

In other news ... i'm now officially anti-MTH. Having played my first true island game, i hate it. I mean i like organizing the logistics and stuff, but it sucks not being able to deal with the sea monsters by having my own navy.

The AI also sucks -> it did try to naval invade me a couple of times, but they always overload the hex with so many units they are so easily crushed and repelled, where i say whats the use?

I also was pissed off because my islands kept losing logistical supply because the sea zones kept trading owner and i didn't have the cards to constantly make new supply routes. By gawwdd let me run my own supply lines!

Anyhow - carry on ;-)
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Vic
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Vic »

New patch. Fixing some stuff & adding some more depth to the Arachnid minors. The Arachnid thing will fall a bit in to the rare-use category, as you'll not see them every playthrough, nor will the evolve to higher levels on every playthrough, but I want to have some feedback on this kind of fleshing out of existing minors for my long term dev planning, it also sports a few semi-new style vidcom screens (in the same vein as the latest fate strat gfx).

Best wishes,
Vic
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Vic
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26c (3 april 2024)

Post by Vic »

mattpilot wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:37 am Not sure where to post this in the forum, or if its even related to the beta, but is this a bug?

Is there a reason a town of 30k is building so many dome-steads? Its using up all my manpower. Will it eventually 'merge' into a proper dome-farm?
It would be interesting to get a save file for this one... it seems it cannot mass the Credits for a level III farmstead and thus keeps going on with level II ones. if you got it could you send it to vic@vrdesigns.net

much appreciated!
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Mechasaurian
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Mechasaurian »

Hi, Vic.

If you're reading this, I'd like suggest a new start customization option in addition to the other ones - the ability to choose what level of public industry we start with.

I've gotten kind of bored with Tech 3 starts being a slog to scrape together the bare minimum I need to do stuff. Especially since, by the time I'm in a state to start expanding, I've usually basically attained Tech 4 anyway, since the time needed to get Public Industry level 1 usually means I've had the time to gain all the basic techs anyway. It usually feels like I might as well just skip to a Tech 4 start.

If I could have a Tech 3 start with a Level 1 or even Level 2 Public Industry, that would mean a quicker start where I can really get expanding with my mad max enviro-suit clad infantry and basic buggies.
Starfry
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Starfry »

The improved bugs are a nice addition to the game verse but we do have to ask for incinerating weapons to deal with them. :twisted:
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Tanaka
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Tanaka »

Hi Vic could we please get the spread out option looked at as even choosing the Colossal planet regimes are placed right next to each other...
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solops
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by solops »

I get way too many offers to buy tech.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand
mattpilot
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by mattpilot »

Would it be possible to get an option for "auto combat" to resolve more or less instantly - or as fast as possible?

I dont know why, but recently it started to annoy me that i have to go through 10 rounds of combat & bomb sounds before combat is over.
Mechasaurian
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Mechasaurian »

A bunch of people in the Discord server has mentioned that their troops are starving to death, not because the logistics are insufficient, but because ammunition is prioritized before food.

Now, I know SE is not quite that granular, but if I was the logistician I'd prioritize it the other way around. Troops can fight with half their bullet allotment, if not as effectively, but if they starve to death they can't fight at all.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by zgrssd »

Mechasaurian wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 12:14 am A bunch of people in the Discord server has mentioned that their troops are starving to death, not because the logistics are insufficient, but because ammunition is prioritized before food.

Now, I know SE is not quite that granular, but if I was the logistician I'd prioritize it the other way around. Troops can fight with half their bullet allotment, if not as effectively, but if they starve to death they can't fight at all.
Mostly logistics would be practical: "Every soldier that dies to starvation, is a new soldier I have to deliver next turn."
It is just making yourself more work down the line.
Thrake
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Thrake »

They can also fight mostly fine for two turns with ammo but without food. Starvation only kicks in with lasting logistics issues.
Soar_Slitherine
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Soar_Slitherine »

Mechasaurian wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 12:14 am A bunch of people in the Discord server has mentioned that their troops are starving to death, not because the logistics are insufficient, but because ammunition is prioritized before food.

Now, I know SE is not quite that granular, but if I was the logistician I'd prioritize it the other way around. Troops can fight with half their bullet allotment, if not as effectively, but if they starve to death they can't fight at all.
For example, let's say a frontline has 4 brigades of infantry (22000 soldiers, or 220 food consumption) and each has a battalion of 105mm howitzer medium tanks attached (20 subunits, or 20 food consumption). The total food consumption is 240 units. Let's say the tank battalions all launch an attack that takes 10 combat rounds. Their howitzers use 34,5 ammo per combat round, so 34,5 * 10 * 20 for a total of 6900 ammo consumption.

That's a total logistics need of 7140 logistics points. Now let's say there's only 2000 logistics points available. Currently, the logistics system seems to simply cut the deliveries of each item by the proportion of logistics points missing. 2000 / 7140 = ~0.28, so the logistics system delivers 68 food and 1932 ammo.

The front now has a deficit of 5140 logistics points, so even assuming no further fighting occurs, it will take 3 turns for the front receive adequate food supply again. Even though the food needs are only a tiny proportion of the total logistics needs or the total logistics points available, in order to prevent mass starvation, the offensive has to be immediately cancelled, even if the enemy has no ability to harm the tanks at all and is only able to slow them down by throwing bodies under their treads.

Since the ammo rebalance, all heavy weapons in the game expend ammo at rates orders of magnitude greater than their food requirements. Because of this fact, in a large majority of cases, delivering all needed food before ammo would have minimal negative impact on combat capability, whereas the way the system currently works can easily lead to a major disaster any time ammunition use strains logistics for an extended period of time.
JohnRa
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by JohnRa »

I think such priorities should be made manageable by SHQ and OHQ settings where OHQ demands can override a general SHQ setting.

For some OHQs in certain it might be needed to prioritise e.g. fuel over recruits or as said food over everything and so on. I would eventually also like to see to able to micromanage a bit how much is stored in Zones as preparation for offences, without needing to completely cut off deliveries to the SHQ.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by zgrssd »

JohnRa wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 4:28 pm I think such priorities should be made manageable by SHQ and OHQ settings where OHQ demands can override a general SHQ setting.

For some OHQs in certain it might be needed to prioritise e.g. fuel over recruits or as said food over everything and so on. I would eventually also like to see to able to micromanage a bit how much is stored in Zones as preparation for offences, without needing to completely cut off deliveries to the SHQ.
New Troops don't factor into this (directly).
SHQ goes:
SHQ -> Unit (Food, Ammo, Fuel, Power)
Reinforcements

So the Reinforcements will never get in the way and always be last.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Don_Kiyote »

Soar_Slitherine wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 1:25 pm Currently, the logistics system seems to simply cut the deliveries of each item by the proportion of logistics points missing. 2000 / 7140 = ~0.28, so the logistics system delivers 68 food and 1932 ammo.
yup
The food vs ammo proportions are a little closer for simple infantry of course. But I'd be happy with a 2:1 or even 4:1 weighting towards food for sure, so for each LP used for ammo, two or four are used for food, up to the total of food required.
I guess that would mean another layer of calculation though.

And, I am also finding there are chances to use a 'left-in-zone storage' or zone retention function.
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by zgrssd »

Don_Kiyote wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 5:01 am
Soar_Slitherine wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 1:25 pm Currently, the logistics system seems to simply cut the deliveries of each item by the proportion of logistics points missing. 2000 / 7140 = ~0.28, so the logistics system delivers 68 food and 1932 ammo.
yup
The food vs ammo proportions are a little closer for simple infantry of course. But I'd be happy with a 2:1 or even 4:1 weighting towards food for sure, so for each LP used for ammo, two or four are used for food, up to the total of food required.
I guess that would mean another layer of calculation though.

And, I am also finding there are chances to use a 'left-in-zone storage' or zone retention function.
The simple options is to just deliver food first, ammo second.

Again, thinking of this from Logistics point of view:
If soldiers die to starvation, that is more work carrying the replacements to the front later.
"Work smarter, not harder: Food first!"
Thrake
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by Thrake »

Also on the topic of making the game more accessible, I think the main issue is still the fact that the game doesn't clearly let the player know when there are resource shortages in a clear way. It regularly comes up on Discord and it's hard to explain people that their tanks don't have fuel because there's not enough production. The typical answer is like "I have fuel left in my SHQ reserves and the arrow is green so I produce enough".
zgrssd
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Re: Open Beta Patch v1.26d (22 april 2024)

Post by zgrssd »

Thrake wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 10:02 am Also on the topic of making the game more accessible, I think the main issue is still the fact that the game doesn't clearly let the player know when there are resource shortages in a clear way. It regularly comes up on Discord and it's hard to explain people that their tanks don't have fuel because there's not enough production. The typical answer is like "I have fuel left in my SHQ reserves and the arrow is green so I produce enough".
This comes from the representation.

There is no indication the resource dropped to 0 during turn resolution. Not even the tooltips clearly indicate it.
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