Victory Point Mysteries

Gary Grigsby’s War in the West 1943-45 is the most ambitious and detailed computer wargame on the Western Front of World War II ever made. Starting with the Summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through the invasions of France and the drive into Germany, War in the West brings you all the Allied campaigns in Western Europe and the capability to re-fight the Western Front according to your plan.

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HansBolter
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Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

Can some one please help me unravel the mysteries of how victory points get allocated?
Reading the Manual section on VPs provided no real insight.

I started a Campaign scenario and was 38 victory points in the hole from the get go.

I managed to whittle that down at a rate of 1-4 positive VP per turn for 13 turns and then on the turn I executed a successful invasion of Italy, I went another 8 points in the hole. Instead of being rewarded with VPs for executing a successful invasion, I was penalized for it. I landed a single Amphib HQ on the following turn, because it didn't have the necessary 50 Prep points the turn before, and was again penalized with -4 VPs.

What do the Allies have to do to actually gain VPs?

The VP table provides no explanation for the many categories I have negative VPs in every turn.
In addition, the VP table has a very large number of City VPs listed, but when I turn the VP Flags on for the map view, no VP Flags appear anywhere on the map. I cannot determine how to identify what is and isn't a Victory Point City.
Can anyone help sort this out for me?

In addition, it was impossible to execute an invasion of Italy by the historic date of Sept. 4th due to the abysmal rate at which Preparation Points are accumulated. I pulled four of the amphib HQs from the Sicily invasion on the turn following the invasion in a vain attempt to be able to execute an invasion of Italy by the historic date. I pulled the remaining two amphib HQs the following turn. Even using the largest ports available in the Med failed to provide for the accumulation of Prep Points in a manner that would facilitate the historic timetable. My invasion with 5 amphib HQs went in three weeks after the historic date.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

As can be seen in the attached screenshot I'm bleeding VPs in the undefined Other category at nearly the same rate as the Uboat category with no ability to identify why, or what I need to do to stop it.

I've prioritized Uboat factories and V-Weapons factories since the beginning of the game and have avoided deep penetration bombing into Germany as I don't yet have P51s to be able to escort deep missions.

I also cannot Identify which Cities are VP cities to know what to target for conquering.
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Zovs
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

Its been a great while since I played WITE.

Did you by chance look up in the new rulebook for any info?

In the Player's Handbook on page 19 it states:

The Allied player receives victory points (vPs) for controlling cities, for damaging Axis industry/manpower and for partisan activity in Axis controlled areas. The Allied player may lose vPs for undamaged U-Boat factories, for undamaged v-Weapon launchers/v-Weapon factories, for Allied casualties, and for not meeting certain beachhead goals. victory will be decided based on the net Allied points scored during the campaign.

And:

SBPs are calculated based on damage to German strategic industries/manpower. The following types are considered to be strategic: German manpower & heavy Industry and German Controlled Oil, Fuel & Synthetic Fuel.

Perhaps your not getting any/enough SBPs?

You mentioned that your not targeting those, so that could be the source of the issue.

I thought there was a way on map to see the VP for each city when bombing...let me try to pull it up.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

Found this too in the Living Manual:

V1.01.37 – 25 May 2016
Added Optional City VP item to the Options screen. This impacts campaign games if toggled on. When on, the victory screen lists that the Allies start with -1200 city victory points due to this option. However, they can earn up to 1600 city victory points in total if they occupy the cities listed in the victory screen. When the cities are captured by the Allies, the points for the city are added to the total Optional City VP total, and this amount is also reflected in the Campaign column of the City Points. For example, at the start of the 1945 campaign, Paris (worth 400 points) and Antwerp (worth 200 points) are occupied by the Allies. Thus, the Optional City Points is equal to -600 (-1200+400+200), and this amount is reflected in the City Points Campaign score. The intention of this rule is to provide additional rewards for the Axis player to accept casualties and advance into Germany. While we recommend this game option for all games, we strongly suggest that this game option be turned on when not playing with the East Front Option. This prevents the Allies from accepting a Soviet takeover of Germany, while striving to maximize bombing points and minimize casualties. This was not politically acceptable to the Allies.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

Hans, I am finding a whole slew of references for VP in the Living Manual. Have you check there, there are ways to show the VP on map, so you can find out what you need to bomb or capture to gain those VP.

The Living Manual I have is:

V1.12
6/7/2019
WitW Release: v1.02.57 – 7 June 2019
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

I don't even know what The Living Manual is, so I'm sure I have never read it. I've only read the hardback book that shipped with the game.

Apparently, my lack of targeting Heavy Industry and Fuel has been keeping me from gaining a sufficient level of Bombing VPs to offset losses in other categories, especially the undefined Other category.

Unfortunately, nothing in your responses has help to explain the Other category, nor what I can do to stop the bleeding in that category.

I also, cannot determine how to get the game to tell me what cities are worth victory points.

I'm guessing that I will not see a turn around on VPs until I get a beachhead in France and start taking real estate.

It's just very disconcerting to be constantly bleeding VPs with no real explanation why.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

Check in your Manuals folder, you should see:

War in the West Living Manual.pdf

It has the date and version I mentioned upstream.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

There is a ton of new content in the Living Manual, which I think will answer a lot of your questions.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Metalist »

Here's the info from manual section 25.1.1.:

Western Allies Casualty Negative VP
The Allied player loses VPs for men killed or wounded as follows:
US killed/captured/disabled: – 1 VP per 1000
Other (non-US) killed/captured/disabled: – 1 VP per 667
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

Where do I find the Living Manual?

The Manual accessible from the game start menu is a pdf that appears to be an exact duplicate of the hardback book.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

I finally found it in the Players Handbook.

Apparently, they can only be created in cities, by clicking on the city name in the upper right of the screen.
The manual insinuated that they could be created on any rail line hex connected to the supply grid, but I this is also apparently, not true.

Why on earth did it take so much effort to find this?
Why couldn't an explanation of how to create them have been provided in the manual section on Depots?
I really don't like having to pull teeth to get the information I need to be able to play the game effectively.

Yet another black eye for the designers.

Meant to post this in the depots thread.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

You should have the living manual right in your manuals folder. What version of WITW are you running (can't remember the patch that included it).
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

I installed the latest update.

Will look in the game folder.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

It does not appear you have the most updated version.

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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

S/B

1.02.59

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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

I'm updated to 1.02.59 and found the Living Manual in the manuals subfolder.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

YW glad you got it sorted out.

My biggest beef now with WITW is when I run the air execution phase it CTD on my system for some reason (did the DDay start CG).
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

Changing up strat Bombing priorities from Uboat/V-Weapons to Oil/Fuel/Heavy Industry made the difference and my Campaign VP status is now in the positive number category in mid December '43.

I mistakenly believed that I need to concentrate on countering the U-boat threat by bombing those factories. I'm losing more VPs per turn to Uboats after switching, but gaining enough more from Strat Bombing to offset it.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by Zovs »

Awesome glad you got it figured out. I knew it might have something to do with the priorities.
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Re: Victory Point Mysteries

Post by HansBolter »

Went back into the negative column at the turn of the year when the V-Weapons started flying.
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