How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Gary Grigsby’s War in the West 1943-45 is the most ambitious and detailed computer wargame on the Western Front of World War II ever made. Starting with the Summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through the invasions of France and the drive into Germany, War in the West brings you all the Allied campaigns in Western Europe and the capability to re-fight the Western Front according to your plan.

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mrfeizhu
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How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by mrfeizhu »

How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential? I feel the starting point was not good, look at the map many parts are unused. For me you can’t compare it to War in the East one and two or WITPAE. Look at the numbers of forum posts and readers its low. I really wish the game would get more scenarios. Always hoping
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by Zovs »

Personally I think that WITW with its DLC's more than lives up to its potenital.
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by Nazcatraz »

The game is great. It's just the different theater that works differently than the East that makes the differences. One thing I do wish that they would have included Africa as part of a grand campaign from 1942-1945 though
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by IslandInland »

I'm not sure that "many parts of the map" being unused makes or breaks a game. Seems a strange thing to hold up as proof as a game not living up to it's potential. Same goes for number of forum posts.

I love the game. It is one of my favourite ever wargames.

Most seem to prefer the Eastern Front which might account for the perception that WITW was somehow a failure. Also I would argue a majority prefer to play as the Germans for reasons unknown to me and as the Germans are on the strategic defence in WITW that might also account for the game's perceived lack of popularity.
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by MarkShot »

I like it +DLC exactly for where it differs from WITE-2.

* There is a real air war; not just GS.

* It is less linear, since the allies have a few choices in the GC.

* Not only can difficulty be adjusted, but scoring as well.

* The GC is more manageable than WITE-2 and both are a walk in the park compared to WITP-AE.

I consider both games well worth my time and money and charming in different ways. Of course, WITE-2 being newer offers various features and UI improvements that just will never be back ported to WITW. Oh, well ...
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by MarkShot »

中國,那裡? 我住在台灣, 也中國. (肥豬先生, 但是我不是中國人. 我是美國來的.)
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by sfbaytf »

As much as some aspects irritate me, this is still a great game. I'm just wondering if its going to be left to die and not get the support it deserves. I would think it takes a lot of time, resources and money to work on this sort of game and the priorities are elsewhere.

Adding Africa would be a great addition and linking 41 to the overall game would be a very good addition. Giving the allieds the option to to invade the Balkans as Churchill wanted would also add a lot of flavor. Once again it would come to allocating the time, money and resources and that may not be a business/profit friendly prospect. idk...

I came from the board wargame world and moved online in the late 80's. I recently got back into board wargaming after a co-worker who recently retired mentioned his interest in board wargames, so I got back into it. Games like War in the Pacific are long in the tooth and it appears that's not going to be remade. Understandable as it would be a massive and probably costly undertaking.

In the board wargaming world though its a different story. Mark Herman and GMT games recently remastered and re-leased Pacific War. Its a beautiful remake. Its is large, takes up a lot of room and there are over 2000 counters. Finding a player as well as the space to play the game is problematical...but there is a solution. Its called the Vassal system which is an open source, online system that has digitized the game. Now you can play someone online and never have to punch the counters or set the game up. Its all online.

There are tons of board wargames covering Europe and the Pacific as well as other periods that have been digitized.

Once you buy a board wargame, you actually own it and you have a physical copy. You can always resell it and some of my old SPI wargames I owned are worth a pretty penny. Technically you could sell a physical copy of a PC wargame, but their value is not that great from what I've seen and they don't hold or increase in value like an actual physical board wargame.

With the computer gaming moving towards services like Steam and no physical copies the control goes away from the consumer and reselling is from what I can see is not possible. I don't think you can even transfer the license to another person either. I may be wrong, but I don't think that is possible from what I've seen.

One other thing about board wargames is you see and get some topics that you don't see from makers of computerized wargames. GMT did a P500 (basically a kickstarter where they wait till 500 people commit to buying) and they are remaking and updating a hypothetical wargame of a China invasion of Taiwan. They recently released a South China Sea modern geopolitical game that is focused on the political/geopolitical aspect of the region.

Another board wargame subject -a modern Korean War is also available.

As for solitaire play-ability, many board wargames have "bot" systems that facilitate solitaire play, while other board games are specially made for solitaire play.

It will be interesting to see how the PC based makers of "monster" wargames that cover past and potential future conflicts evolves. It may be a case where the business model, cost effectiveness and profitability is more in favor of board wargame producers and the PC based world focuses its efforts on more cost effective and profitable ventures.
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by MarkShot »

You won't find the code base of WITW engine worked on again except by enthusiast coders with authorization by the IP holders a la the examples EDBTR or WITP-AE. 2by3 will never return to those code bases or WITW; but it is clear the WITW's code base was the foundation of WITE-2.

I speculate that we might see WITE-2-like game for Europe sometime in the future, since you will notice the WITE-2 map is more extensively modeled than what is needed the current topic. Only 2by3 knows what they are working on beyond another WITE-2 DLC. But I don't think they have the resources to invest so much in the WITE-2 code base, and then begin a new game from scratch. I am sure the next title will see code reuse from WITE-2.

Is there more money to be made in other genres or beer and pretzels for teams as skilled as 2by3? Yes. But I imagine they are sufficiently profitable and doing what they want to do.
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by Mac Linehan »

Zovs wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:43 am Personally I think that WITW with its DLC's more than lives up to its potenital.
I absolutely agree with the above; WitW and Torch are outstanding.

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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by Zenra »

100%. One of the few computer war games I still play, and regularly, like WitP AE. I want to try WitE 2 but just haven’t been able to get the time yet - retirement is coming, though! :D
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by cfulbright »

I've been playing War in the West since 2013 when I became a beta tester. I've played multiple 1943 Grand Campaigns I LOVE this game. I've modified scenarios and equipment. I've never played a game more or longer than I've played this game.

Does that answer your question?
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Re: How many people feel that War in the West did not live up to its potential?

Post by MarkShot »

cfulbright wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:51 am I've been playing War in the West since 2013 when I became a beta tester. I've played multiple 1943 Grand Campaigns I LOVE this game. I've modified scenarios and equipment. I've never played a game more or longer than I've played this game.

Does that answer your question?
I agree. That is why I am not intimidated by the 500+ pages and learning curve. Since the two titles shout replayability. Originally, I was playing more tactical games where most scenarios were play once. Since once you known around which particularly bend the 88 is located or a mine field ... well, it changes things forever. One way I alleviated this problem is I had 6,000 (mainly scenarios) for CMx1. When you recycle after 3 years, you tend to forget such details.

But scenarios require this huge pre-play investment of study and planning. With GG's games ... after a while you know the map like your neighborhood, you know the generals like old friends, and your know the OB like the org chart of your own business. They become very welcoming, and eliminate the 30% time investment in study and planning.

Unlike one poster, I am already retired and older. Time becomes important. This is why I no longer can play Uboat games and go on patrol for RL days searching for a convoy.
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