Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy?

[bcgames]

I am happy to coach you. I'll teach you the game system if you are interested. Just let me know. Multiplayer isn't hard or frightening; it's fun and a friend-finding experience. So...exit the "AI-only" bunker and give it a try. I'll help you until you get too good.

Let's Go! Jump in!

[lastkozak]

I am a big fan of the Desert War. Loved many of the old board Desert War games. I wanted to be a beta tester for this one, but was not accepted.

Why I have not yet purchased it?
It was and is pricey, if you want the CD and manual and box; I prefer them so I can reload them when I want to. (I waited 4 years before buying GGWITW, for that reason).
In the old days you bought a game, and you could play it with others. These days, you buy the game and can only play with somebody else who bought the game. So I need to convince old war game buddies to buy it too (and they have to convince their marital partners to let them spend the money)!

The other option is play people on the forum, but many times I find that it is a person with several handles who claims to be inexperienced, but are a serious player who just likes winning, so they act like they are novice and beat real novices, who lose interest in the game; especially if they are later ridiculed online for losing. Too bad handles cannot be linked up to the version of the game the person is playing on; thus you see how long the person has been playing.

I have never obtained a good explanation of how WEGO works? Anything I read on line, describes the idea of planned turns, and then a computer which plays both players turns out at the same time. Like the old board airwar games, Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men. If it is not, then there is a problem explaining WEGO.

I see many units in the videos, and understand people's complaint, although it does not intimidate me that much. Although adding units together into larger units, may be helpful. I like the way GGWITW allows battalion sized units to appear or disappear. Wish GGWITW had a 1940-43 Desert Scenario.

Desert War does not have a campaign game! Fighting scenarios can be fun, but I like to be part of the big picture; GGWITE is great for that, but GGWITW is basically a scenario game, and thus is not as interesting for that reason. When one thinks Desert in WW2, one thinks of Rommel, Montgomery, Wavell, Alexander, and Patton, they do not think of minor commanders, or one or two battles, as each battle was only a brick in the entire Desert War. One thinks, bomb Malta, to prevent interference from supplies, or Defend Malta at all costs, to interdict supplies going to the Axis.

I remember when somebody attempted to create CWIE 2; they created a scenario for the invasion of Poland, and this was free. Everybody got to see how it worked and play it, leading to feedback and improved aspects of the game, and people awaiting in anticipation for the whole CWIE2. CWIE2 never used any AI, you played a human or played with yourself [:-][:D].

If there was a free download of the game to play one scenario, maybe the tutorial, it would give me a better idea how the game functions and if I wanted to purchase the entire one.

I am somewhat surprised Desert War did not take off as much as other games have. That said, when I first viewed it, I was planning on buying it until I realized there was no campaign game. I wait til game prices drop, or can get them cheap enough that the price is worth the risk of finding out, if it is a good game or not; I am tired of buying games and then realizing they are not that good, or won't hold my attention long enough, or can't find anybody but a computer to play against.

last kozak

[bcgames]

Thanks for taking the time to share your views on this question.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak

I am a big fan of the Desert War. Loved many of the old board Desert War games. I wanted to be a beta tester for this one, but was not accepted.

Can't speak to this. I was not involved in the selection process for beta testers. I am 100% in control of alpha testing for Stalingrad. So stay tuned.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
Why I have not yet purchased it?
It was and is pricey, if you want the CD and manual and box; I prefer them so I can reload them when I want to. (I waited 4 years before buying GGWITW, for that reason).

I follow the same rules in game purchase...some I buy right out the door. Some I wait for sale. Some I'm not interested in at any price.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
In the old days you bought a game, and you could play it with others. These days, you buy the game and can only play with somebody else who bought the game. So I need to convince old war game buddies to buy it too (and they have to convince their marital partners to let them spend the money)!

Yep.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
The other option is play people on the forum, but many times I find that it is a person with several handles who claims to be inexperienced, but are a serious player who just likes winning, so they act like they are novice and beat real novices, who lose interest in the game; especially if they are later ridiculed online for losing. Too bad handles cannot be linked up to the version of the game the person is playing on; thus you see how long the person has been playing.

If you buy Desert War, I have a standing offer to play you on-line and answer your questions on how to play. I just bought WARPLAN and am being seriously schooled on-line. But I'm learning the game.

You want to learn Desert War? I'll teach you. Ask questions--I'll answer to the best of my ability. You want to play Desert War competitively--say so. Then I'm playing to win. That's where I stand on this point.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I have never obtained a good explanation of how WEGO works? Anything I read on line, describes the idea of planned turns, and then a computer which plays both players turns out at the same time. Like the old board airwar games, Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men. If it is not, then there is a problem explaining WEGO.

In WEGO, you create a plan...plot moves, attacks, defenses, or twiddle your thumbs--your opponent does the same. The computer then resolves/de-conflicts each players planned moves, attacks, defenses, thumb twiddlin'. "Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men" don't ring any bells as examples of WEGO for me--too many years in my rear view mirror. The best board game example for me is GDW's Operation Crusader (I have three copies!):

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame ... n-crusader

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I see many units in the videos, and understand people's complaint, although it does not intimidate me that much. Although adding units together into larger units, may be helpful. I like the way GGWITW allows battalion sized units to appear or disappear. Wish GGWITW had a 1940-43 Desert Scenario.

El Alamein is a stack-fest. But as an experienced player I view that as a solvable puzzle--it just wasn't the best scenario to include with the game. GGWITW 1940-43 Desert War will get my right-out-the-door dollar.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
Desert War does not have a campaign game! Fighting scenarios can be fun, but I like to be part of the big picture; GGWITE is great for that, but GGWITW is basically a scenario game, and thus is not as interesting for that reason. When one thinks Desert in WW2, one thinks of Rommel, Montgomery, Wavell, Alexander, and Patton, they do not think of minor commanders, or one or two battles, as each battle was only a brick in the entire Desert War. One thinks, bomb Malta, to prevent interference from supplies, or Defend Malta at all costs, to interdict supplies going to the Axis.

As a young man, I scraped together the money to buy SPI's Campaign for North Africa. A friend and I spent a month...assisted by an Apple IIc (him) and an Apple IIe (me) computer--to play a single turn. Then we quit. We decided that the only way to play would be to computerize the whole campaign. I think that was around 1987. Here in the year 2019, I'm no closer to having the capability to produce an historically accurate, AI-supported Campaign for North Africa.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I remember when somebody attempted to create CWIE 2; they created a scenario for the invasion of Poland, and this was free. Everybody got to see how it worked and play it, leading to feedback and improved aspects of the game, and people awaiting in anticipation for the whole CWIE2. CWIE2 never used any AI, you played a human or played with yourself [:-][:D].

That's how Desert War Started. St Ruth needed to learn Java for work reasons. He decided to teach himself by designing a wargame. When he was done he posted it up on The Wargamer as a throw away--"I'm done--do with it as you wish..." I liked it cuz it was a fun game and it scratched my Campaign for North Africa itch. We started collaborating and here we are.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
If there was a free download of the game to play one scenario, maybe the tutorial, it would give me a better idea how the game functions and if I wanted to purchase the entire one.

Good idea.

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I am somewhat surprised Desert War did not take off as much as other games have. That said, when I first viewed it, I was planning on buying it until I realized there was no campaign game. I wait til game prices drop, or can get them cheap enough that the price is worth the risk of finding out, if it is a good game or not; I am tired of buying games and then realizing they are not that good, or won't hold my attention long enough, or can't find anybody but a computer to play against.

I hear that. I have more bad game choices than good...board and computer. Happy faces? Gary Grigby's War in the East, Decisive Campaigns Series--especially Barbarossa, and Flashpoint Campaigns Series. I'm sure there are others. Board games? Not happy...but there are some purty, un-punched games sitting on the shelf in my office.

[Ralph1961]

Got the game just haven’t had the time to dive into it yet. Let me check out the videos and play against the AI to learn the game then maybe I’ll let you kick my rear at PBEM.

[bcgames]

Easiest way to learn is to get stuck in. I have two modes of play--play to teach and play to win. I enjoy both. Pick your mode when you are ready to dabble with PBEM.

[AP514]

[/quote]

That's exactly the series I was alluding to when I mentioned "JT's version". Both Battle of Normandy and Battle of Kursk are excellent games. Those two and his new Africa one are the Panzer Campaigns series.
Plus, if you've ever played a Tiller game, there's little to no learning curve.
It's very good to know you guys are still working on this and future games too.

If the AI in JT Panzer Campaigns are anything like his ACW, Napoleonics series then I will PASS
Talk about Brain Dead-AI

I Will PASS on ANY JT's GAME that the AI is an after thought


Working on learning your game. Just purchased )

AP514

[Ralph1961]

I think I have an idea of how to play now. I'm up for a learning game. What is the best scenario to play after the introductory one?

[bcgames]

I suggest Rats vs The Ram. You play the Allies.

[bcgames]

Multiplayer challenge posted.

Launch the game
Select Play
Select Multiplayer
Log-in...should be your Matrix Forum name and password
Select Accept Tab
Select Rats vs The Ram: The Battle of Bir el Gubi

[bcgames]

We should wait before playing this scenario. There may be a problem for people trying to implementing Update 1.0.4. Until the smart people make a pronouncement on the issues at hand, I think it best to postpone any Multiplayer game play. Sorry.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: Ralph1961

I think I have an idea of how to play now. I'm up for a learning game. What is the best scenario to play after the introductory one?

If you were able to update to Desert War v1.0.4, let's give it a go. Rats vs The Ram challenge is posted.

[Ralph1961]

No problem, I’ve updated to 1.04
I’ll try to take on the AI to get a better feel for the game.

[Ralph1961]

I've accepted your challenge to Rats vs Rams,
Looks like I have the Allies

[bcgames]

Indeed. I'm here to help you learn the game system. Nice and easy, slow and steady. It's all terribly fun in the end.

[countrboy]

I did buy the game, but I don't play it anymore and didn't play it very much, despite loving the North African theatre, for one reason: mega stacks.

I just don't enjoy games that permit the stacking of many many units. Or if it is allowed, make it such that there are serious penalties, like in Tiller's Panzer Campaign series, where you can stack many units but woe betide if you get by an artillery strike.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: countrboy

I did buy the game, but I don't play it anymore and didn't play it very much, despite loving the North African theatre, for one reason: mega stacks.

I just don't enjoy games that permit the stacking of many many units. Or if it is allowed, make it such that there are serious penalties, like in Tiller's Panzer Campaign series, where you can stack many units but woe betide if you get by an artillery strike.

Define your mega stack.

[Profender]

Hi there

I bought the game today and have played it for some hours so far.
What I miss is a visible clear view of what happened after a battle maybe I am overlooking it but more information is what I miss so far.
So far enjoying it. Sorry but I turned off the music and have some custom music that fits the game and setting more.

[bcgames]

While watching the AAR (Film) for a game turn, right click on the battle in question to see the relevant data for that particular battle.

[DaveDennis]

You wanted information on why people didn't buy. Wish I could help, but I purchased a copy earlier today.

I've got some personal business that will keep me busy for the next month or so, but I later plan on taking you up on your office for a learning match... Very awesome of you to offer this level of support!

[bcgames]

Great. I'll see you then.