Port block with night movement

WarPlan Pacific is an operational level wargame which covers all the nations at war in the Pacific theatre from December 1941 to 1945 on a massive game scale.

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CHINCHIN
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Port block with night movement

Post by CHINCHIN »

I think it would be more realistic if a naval unit using night movement couldn't blockade a port. If during the day that port can receive supply, it should not be unsupplied. What do you think?
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AlvaroSousa
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by AlvaroSousa »

You could make an argument in the other direction as well.

Ships that only show up during the day shouldn't be able to port block because then the transports show up at night.
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AlvaroSousa
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Also when you port blockade at night you are doing it about 50% of the time.
If you do it during the day you are doing it 100% of the time.

The night time missions become day after 1 turn. So if you stay you get pounded.

Or you send 2x the ships to port blockade rotating which opens you up to more interception.
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stjeand
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by stjeand »

The issue I always had with blockades is...

A blockade in raider mode should not be possible.

The fleet is attempting to avoid surface contact yet they seek out surface contact...which is it?

You could say that they are trying to intercept just merchants and not warships...
Sorry but this is WW II...I do not believe they could make that distinction until they were too close to avoid possible contact.


BUT outside this...perhaps is should be that a "night" blockade has a chance to fail.

Ships is "day" mode are there day and night...air can attack them whenever...ships hiding in night move mode are ONLY there during the night...so as Chinchin said...all day is wide open for merchants
Nirosi
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by Nirosi »

stjeand wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:21 pm The fleet is attempting to avoid surface contact yet they seek out surface contact...which is it?

You could say that they are trying to intercept just merchants and not warships...
Sorry but this is WW II...I do not believe they could make that distinction until they were too close to avoid possible contact.
Well, wether it is realistic or not, that is exactly what the raider rule do say in the book.

I understand the argument and it makes lots of sense. However if raiders can not blockade by attacking only merchant ships near ports they (surface ships at least) should also not be able to raid convoy lanes (either WP or WPP) when in raider mode.

In a way, that could be a nice solution : subs can raid lanes, and interdict supply in any mode, but surface can do both, plus blockade, only in fleet mode? This basically would mean that raider mode for surface fleet would only be for transport or supply runs?

On the other hand, they were ships that did have the order to try mostly to disrupt supply and not engage superior forces... The main problem is that in the game they always succeed at that...

Honestly I do not mind either way, as long as the rule for hunting merchants carrying PPs is the same as hunting them carrying supply.
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ncc1701e
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by ncc1701e »

Nirosi wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:23 pm
Honestly I do not mind either way, as long as the rule for hunting merchants carrying PPs is the same as hunting them carrying supply.
This, unfortunately the supply system for the latter is much too abstracted.

I hope WP2 will introduce something like this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=382087
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Nirosi
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by Nirosi »

ncc1701e wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:44 pm
Nirosi wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:23 pm
Honestly I do not mind either way, as long as the rule for hunting merchants carrying PPs is the same as hunting them carrying supply.
This, unfortunately the supply system for the latter is much too abstracted.

I hope WP2 will introduce something like this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=382087
oh... I like that, I hope Alvaro manages to do it, or a close variant. I also was thinking that transports should be involved in "supply" somehow, not only merchants, just not sure how it could be done. Your proposition is simple and elegant!
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stjeand
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by stjeand »

I would like something like this also BUT you will have to change cost of transports and MM to nearly nothing...otherwise that is all that will be built for the entire war.

Also if you do this you have to change the entire repair process...basically make it manual. I would like that anyways...having 20 units that need repair I dislike having to add up points be sure to put them on priority then make sure I did not miscount because one unit is 1941 another is 1940 then find out the system repaired one unit over another before it ran out of points and I would have done it the other way around.

IF there was a "repair" phase...that you sent repair points out based on what you wanted repaired in order until points ran out...and if there were ships near a port you may NOT send repair points there rather than being forced because the system has just enough points left and that is the only unit still requiring repairs.


Back to night block...

Honestly I am okayish with this...It is not perfect but simple.
generalfdog
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by generalfdog »

I like the system including repair. I dislike games where you have to manually reinforce every unit it is tedious, I do think ships that are blockading or supplying units should be easier to spot
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stjeand
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by stjeand »

generalfdog wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:44 pm I like the system including repair. I dislike games where you have to manually reinforce every unit it is tedious, I do think ships that are blockading or supplying units should be easier to spot
I would like the option.

IF you want auto...click auto...IF you want manual then manual.

I can NEVER get the right units to repair when I want the too.
CHINCHIN
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by CHINCHIN »

The system for WP2 that Ncc1701 comments so that the transport of replacements does not come free, is fine. But it's also free, it doesn't cost transport, the delivery of supplies to ports, I don't know if it should also be taken into account or it's already getting too complicated.

I would also add for WP2, that transports and MM be unified in a single type, and that their tasks be distributed, transport of troops (those that remain free), transport of replacements (modify manually), transports for PP/Oil (those assigned on the convoy screen). For this, the AI would have to give you the necessary transports for replacements, and supplies if you want to take it into account. I also think like Stjeand, that they should be cheaper, and with a shorter delivery time, for example, that they could be bought 5 by 5 and the delivery time would be cut in half.

But regarding the night blockade, I understand that to supply a port, sending a supply convoy every 2 or 3 days is enough, if you have air superiority you do it during the day, if you don't have air superiority you do it at night, and it can send their escorts along with the convoy when they are interested, so it seems logical for a unit to use night movement to break the blockade, but not the other way around, since the enemy has to be alert 24 hours a day, from what I understand that night blocking is not possible. Another thing is that it is complicated to implement, or that Alavaro considers that it is not important or that it is not worth complicated.
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AlvaroSousa
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Re: Port block with night movement

Post by AlvaroSousa »

Most of the ideas presented are really good. But I need to balance what is easy for players to use, won't make it micro-managee and won't create an exploit.

Like the manpower/transport idea is great. In North Africa the Italians transported 90% of all the goods to the Africa Corps. So why did it create problems? Sometimes it was the shipment that got hit that was the problem. A transport of tanks, an oiler, extra.

Trying to implement that might be difficult. But this I will examine once I start WP2.

As for the raiders.... realize they got a bonus to not being detected but when their detection level is the highest due to being next to your port for raiding supply it is much easier to find them than raiding a convoy.
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