Khrushchev's War, Day 4 - Birmingham Goes Hunting, 1957 -- new beta for testing

[Mgellis]

Here is another of the Khrushchev's War scenarios...

Day 4 of the war. The Soviets are moving submarines and support vessels into the North Atlantic, where they will be able to threaten NATO convoys. A British task force centered on the cruiser Birmingham is sent to deal with this threat.

As always, please let me know what you think. What can changed, fixed, or improved? Orders, units selected, Events, scoring, gameplay, or anything else...what can I do to make this scenario better, more fun, and more challenging?

Thanks in advance.

Version 2 uploaded 3:25 PM CST November 13, 2024

Birmingham 1.JPG (211.09 KiB) Viewed 378 times

[HalfLifeExpert]

SWEET! I know what I'm doing after work today!

[HalfLifeExpert]

I'm in my first playthrough as I type this. A couple of things so far:

1) There's no biologics listed in the scenario platforms. Since there's enemy subs, I feel there should be some of them out there.

2) Given the assets and technology of the time, I feel like we might be tasked with covering a bit too big of an area, but I could be wrong. The chief note in this regard might be the open question as to whether Soviet vessels, enroute to the projected rendezvous point, will take the direct route to the SE of Iceland, or the wider route through the Denmark Strait.

I do not know how capable the Brits were at cryptology of Soviet naval communications at this point, but the scenario setup does have them breaking enough of the codes to determine a likely rally point. I feel like the scenario setup should provide the player something more as to a rough direction to expect the enemy to come from.

For instance, the progress of fighting in northern Norway could determine which route the Soviets will go. If they have the upper hand and have suppressed enough Norwegian airbases, they may decide the direct route is more viable. Conversely, if the air over Scandinavia is still up for grabs, the Soviets could decide on the Denmark Strait route. In this latter situation, a tanker should be added to the Soviet task force.

This is not to say that the player should be provided actual last positions/bearings, but I feel that given the limited resources available especially the somewhat limited range of the Shackeltons, I feel that maybe it's a bit too much to ask to cover both the direct routes and the route from the NW in the direction of the Denmark Strait.

Fortunately, the lack of cruise missiles makes it much safer for the RN vessels to have their radars on all the time, as any Soviet surface ships would likely be picked up before getting within gun range.

[HalfLifeExpert]

Completed first playthrough. I had mixed results.

I ended up getting lucky on a shot in the dark vector of an unarmed Shackleton and found the Soviet surface force. I won't say where of course to avoid spoilers for others.

Needed to wait until the subsequent dawn before I could launch an airstrike, but the only aircraft I had ready to do it were 4x Hunters armed with Rockets, and 1x Shackleton with Armed Maritime surveillance loadout (which oddly has the same number of 1000lb bombs as the "strike" loadout of bombs)

Those five combined sorties were able to re-locate and attack the surface force. I sank the sub tender and damaged the cruiser and one of the destroyers, but lost a Hunter to AAA.

I had vectored the Birmingham task group and HMS Thermopylae to intercept this force and I succeeded in finishing off the 3 remaining vessels with HMS Thermopylae.

I ended up locating 2 Soviet submarines, but failed to sink either, and lost 3 vessels to their torpedoes. I was unable to get enough of a fix on the first sub with a Shackleton before it hit bingo fuel.

As for the second sub, which I located near the Rally point, I actually had it dead to rights with HMS Urania, but I was unable to engage with the vessel's only ASW weapon (Squid Mortar). Apparently, according to the Manual Attack window, the vessel was unable to fire due to missing any sort of weapon director for the ASW mortar launchers. Is this a DB error?

I lost Urania to that sub's torpedo while desperately trying to engage, and I sent HMS Chieftain to give a go, but it was sunk before it could get in ASW range.

So having gone through this, here's some updated notes (in addition to my prior notes).

1) Check to make sure all the British vessels have the required sensors/directors to use their ASW weapons, especially the depth charge mortars. Otherwise they are useless.

2) The fact that I was able to destroy the Soviet Surface force with aircraft and 1x submarine, far from the designated patrol zone makes me think that there's TOO MUCH air support (in an inverse of my thoughts on "France Enters the Fray").

I think that maybe, since the war is not nuclear at this stage, NATO would need every single tactical aircraft it can scrap together on the frontlines on the continent, so perhaps remove the Hunters? (Especially since the Guns only loadout can't really do much with no enemy aircraft in the area). Perhaps replace them with a few additional Shackeltons or even USN MPAs?

Additionally, the presence of 1000lb bombs in Lossiemouth's magazine might make the Birmingham superfluous in this scenario, and with the pressing needs of the front, perhaps we can assume that all those have already been sent to the front or are earmarked for transport to the mainland, and remove them from the magazine, leaving only ASW weapons.

3) I think we as the player may need some occasional help on getting SOME kind of vector on the Soviet submarines, given the VERY short range of sonars available and the comparatively large area we have to search. I can see this being done in a couple different ways:

A) Have the Soviet subs have poor Radar discipline when they pop up to periscope depth or even surface, so that we have radar signals and periscopes to try to home in on

B) Have occasional updates from RN command on (off-screen) HF/DF radio contacts to give possible relatively small locations of one or two of the subs, due to perhaps poor radio discipline.

I think this scenario could use some more time in the oven that the last two I'm afraid. For a scenario with this setup, I feel that the Soviet surface force should only be able to be stopped with either a surface battle or a submarine attack.

Come to think of it, perhaps this could be modified somewhat to be more of a flexible barrier patrol between Iceland and the Faroes, rather than the Box patrol area it currently is?

[tylerblakebrandon]

I ended up locating 2 Soviet submarines, but failed to sink either, and lost 3 vessels to their torpedoes. I was unable to get enough of a fix on the first sub with a Shackleton before it hit bingo fuel...


Perhaps replace them with a few additional Shackeltons or even USN MPAs?

Sounds like you could use the endurance and ASW persistence of American blimps.

[Mgellis]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'll post Version 2 as soon as I'm done working on it.

I'll remove the Hunters and drop the number of available 1,000 lb. bombs.

I checked the British ships...the frigates and the destroyers will fire on submarines but a) they have to be hellaciously close and b) the destroyers only have a couple of shots (the frigates have more). I did not see any issues with the weapon director. I may play around with other options that are more ASW-friendly but won't make the scenario too easy.

I like the idea of making it a barrier patrol and will play around with some options.

Thanks again. I'll post Version 2 soon.

Completed first playthrough. I had mixed results.

I ended up getting lucky on a shot in the dark vector of an unarmed Shackleton and found the Soviet surface force. I won't say where of course to avoid spoilers for others.

Needed to wait until the subsequent dawn before I could launch an airstrike, but the only aircraft I had ready to do it were 4x Hunters armed with Rockets, and 1x Shackleton with Armed Maritime surveillance loadout (which oddly has the same number of 1000lb bombs as the "strike" loadout of bombs)

Those five combined sorties were able to re-locate and attack the surface force. I sank the sub tender and damaged the cruiser and one of the destroyers, but lost a Hunter to AAA.

I had vectored the Birmingham task group and HMS Thermopylae to intercept this force and I succeeded in finishing off the 3 remaining vessels with HMS Thermopylae.

I ended up locating 2 Soviet submarines, but failed to sink either, and lost 3 vessels to their torpedoes. I was unable to get enough of a fix on the first sub with a Shackleton before it hit bingo fuel.

As for the second sub, which I located near the Rally point, I actually had it dead to rights with HMS Urania, but I was unable to engage with the vessel's only ASW weapon (Squid Mortar). Apparently, according to the Manual Attack window, the vessel was unable to fire due to missing any sort of weapon director for the ASW mortar launchers. Is this a DB error?

I lost Urania to that sub's torpedo while desperately trying to engage, and I sent HMS Chieftain to give a go, but it was sunk before it could get in ASW range.

So having gone through this, here's some updated notes (in addition to my prior notes).

1) Check to make sure all the British vessels have the required sensors/directors to use their ASW weapons, especially the depth charge mortars. Otherwise they are useless.

2) The fact that I was able to destroy the Soviet Surface force with aircraft and 1x submarine, far from the designated patrol zone makes me think that there's TOO MUCH air support (in an inverse of my thoughts on "France Enters the Fray").

I think that maybe, since the war is not nuclear at this stage, NATO would need every single tactical aircraft it can scrap together on the frontlines on the continent, so perhaps remove the Hunters? (Especially since the Guns only loadout can't really do much with no enemy aircraft in the area). Perhaps replace them with a few additional Shackeltons or even USN MPAs?

Additionally, the presence of 1000lb bombs in Lossiemouth's magazine might make the Birmingham superfluous in this scenario, and with the pressing needs of the front, perhaps we can assume that all those have already been sent to the front or are earmarked for transport to the mainland, and remove them from the magazine, leaving only ASW weapons.

3) I think we as the player may need some occasional help on getting SOME kind of vector on the Soviet submarines, given the VERY short range of sonars available and the comparatively large area we have to search. I can see this being done in a couple different ways:

A) Have the Soviet subs have poor Radar discipline when they pop up to periscope depth or even surface, so that we have radar signals and periscopes to try to home in on

B) Have occasional updates from RN command on (off-screen) HF/DF radio contacts to give possible relatively small locations of one or two of the subs, due to perhaps poor radio discipline.

I think this scenario could use some more time in the oven that the last two I'm afraid. For a scenario with this setup, I feel that the Soviet surface force should only be able to be stopped with either a surface battle or a submarine attack.

Come to think of it, perhaps this could be modified somewhat to be more of a flexible barrier patrol between Iceland and the Faroes, rather than the Box patrol area it currently is?

[tylerblakebrandon]

Were sonars active and undamaged? I believe Squid require active sonar direction.

[HalfLifeExpert]

Were sonars active and undamaged? I believe Squid require active sonar direction.

Yep, I had a solid active sonar bearing and range on the contact, and it had to be within range, as it was clearly within the dark green range circle, and the Squid mortar was the only ASW weapon onboard the vessel in question.

Additionally, the mortar was only forward throwing, and the sub was directly ahead of the destroyer

[Mgellis]

Just uploaded version 2. Tweaked a few things (the patrol zone is now the passages near the Faroe Islands and you get instructions on when to move to a different zone if the subs get past you the first time). Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

By the way, for anyone who is interested in the Royal Navy, this is a great resource...

https://www.naval-history.net/xGW-RNOrg ... 7-2013.htm

Also, a bit of trivia...for anyone who ever wondered, it is spelled "Faroe," not "Faeroe." Actually, both spellings are accepted, but since the official site for the islands spells it "Faroe," I figured that was what I should use...

https://www.faroeislands.fo/

[HalfLifeExpert]

Cool! I'll have a look this evening!

[HalfLifeExpert]

I've completed a playthrough of Version 2, save for one brief period, I did pretty well. I got an Average score of 350

I detected the Soviet Surface force in an area which was good for the Birmingham force to intercept. And Intercept I did:

Birmingham Crosses the T !!!

Birmingham Crossing the T.jpg (215.31 KiB) Viewed 125 times

The Maxim Gorky was crippled by these salvos, but shortly after this screenshot was taken, Birmingham and the forward two destroyers in the column were all hit and sunk by Torpedoes. They came out of nowhere from my perspective, so I don't know for sure if they came from the Soviet destroyers or a nearby Soviet sub.

The surviving destroyer, plus the support group to the NW were able to close the distance at speed and finish off the Soviet ships without difficulty.

Afterward, the Soviet subs started to arrive at the rally point, and I converged everything I had into an ASW box around that location. After several hours in-game time, I was able to locate and sink 3x Soviet subs, including the experimental SSB Whiskey

I think this scenario works rather well. I got a bit blinded by nostalgic glory by keeping my force in a perfect battle-line to cross the Soviet's T and forgot about the Torpedo threat. The player should economize their air search assets to in searches for the surface force.

While I didn't do this, perhaps it would be a good strategy to concentrate one of the destroyer detachments and/or one submarine near the Rally point, and then use the rest of your assets to cover the Iceland-Faroes-Scotland corridors.

Others should give input, but I think this scenario is much better than the first version.

Losses & Expenditures:

AS OF: 5/2/1957 5:18:19 AM

SIDE: United Kingdom
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x C 19 Birmingham
1x D 05 Daring
1x F 185 Relentless [Type 15]

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
174x 114mm/45 Mk6 Twin HE Burst [2 rnds]
1643x 114mm/45 Single HE
177x 152mm/50 Mk23 Triple CPBC Salvo [3 rnds]
42x 40mm/60 Twin Bofors Burst [4 rnds]
54x 40mm/70 Mk9 Single Bofors Burst [4 rnds]
18x Mk11 Depth Charge
6x Mk34 Mod 1
1x Mk9 Straight Runner
144x Type 17054 Active Directional [Mk1c]
223x Type 30059 LOFAR [Mk1c]

SIDE: Soviet Union
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x EM Skory Pr.30bis
1x KR Maxim Gorkiy
1x PB Atrek
1x PL-611 Zulu I
1x PL-611AV Zulu V
1x PL-613 Whiskey I
1x SKR Koni [Pr.1159]

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
6x 53-65K WH


SIDE: Neutrals
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------

EXPENDITURES:
------------------

[schweggy]

I played ver. 2 yesterday. Finished as "average." I too lost the Birmingham to torpedoes "out of nowhere." The three Soviet warships were engaged with the surviving British warships from TG-1 and TG-3 and all were sunk. TG-2 skirted to the south of the Soviet main body and went after the sub tender that was straggling along about 20 - 30 miles behind the other ships. At this point there was still almost two days remaining so I redirected the subs to the Soviet rendezvous point, but didn't really know what to do with the surviving British warships, other than regroup them and send them home.

That's when the message popped up about the Soviet subs taking up station. So the new TG was directed there along with the ASW aircraft.

Three subs where dispatched before time ran out, but I think the British losses were substantial enough to warrant a draw. And the Zulu SSB was located, but the subs on station and the ASW aircraft were unable to get a fix long enough to sink it.

[Mgellis]

Thanks for the feedback posts. I love the screenshot.

Anything else that needs to be done, or is this ready for the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks again for all the help.

(Working on the fifth scenario...a British surface group without air support has to intercept a Soviet convoy trying to sneak out the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean...and no one knows if the Indonesians, who historically were moving into a period of good relations and arms transfers with the USSR, are going to stay neutral or help the Soviets...)