fighters go on loop on refueling mission

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flex0r
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 25, 2023 3:22 pm

fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by flex0r »

Hi folks, I need some help with setting up refueling missions. Basically my fighters end up in a loop, going back to the tanker before even reaching the area of operation and even if they have 50% fuel left.

I set up a support mission with tankers, at half the distance between base and the objective, but the fighters never reach the objective. They always return to get fuel, before reaching the objective and even with half fuel left. The tankers fuel the fighter as it should and even they start flying towards them as I set them up.

I tried to follow the following tutorial, since it is exactly what I need for complex mission and I am pretty sure the issue is with the % that I put in "Receiver start looking for gas....".
I don't really understand the calculation he made in the tutorial, and how he realized that 45% is the correct percentage to avoid fighters stuck in a loop, basically I don't know what percentage should I put there and what option should I choose for the "Flights booking tanker range of.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI0AHco5yk4

I hope someone is kind enough to explain me better how to calculate this percentage so the fighters reach the objective, execute the mission and only after that come to refuel. Not sure if it make sense for you what I just explained but I take the shot, it would be a great help to automatize missions and not do the refuel manually.
boogabooga
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 am

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by boogabooga »

If you are going to be analytical, I would recommend setting "Receiver start looking for gas...." to a value that lets you get back to base safely on mission fuel (i.e. not having to dip too much into fuel reserves) in the event that the tanker becomes unavailable.

Take an example. An F-15E with a loadout A/A: AIM-120A AMRAAM, light has 12213 kg of mission fuel. (You can check that in the unit status window.) It needs to get to a patrol zone 1000 nm from base. Check the Database in the Performance Details section for the F-15E. You're usually looking for "Band 4, Cruise Speed" to get the best per mile fuel consumption for modern-ish jet aircraft. We see that the cruise speed is 480 kts with 32.45 kg fuel/minute.

So to get back to base from the patrol zone, you'll fly for 1000 nm / 480 kts = 2.08 hrs = about 125 minutes
In that time, you will burn 125 min * 32.45 kg/min = 4056 kg.
4056 kg is (4056 kg/ 12213 kg) = 0.332 or 33% of mission fuel
So, bump that up a little and use 35% or so for "Receiver start looking for gas...."

If you still endlessly loop back to the tankers, that means that you are trying to operate too far out from a fuel logistics standpoint.

Ooooor....
You can do what I do and set it to 10% all the time and trust to luck. ;)
Attachments
F-15E A2A Refuel Test.zip
(63.22 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
The boogabooga doctrine for CMO: Any intentional human intervention needs to be able to completely and reliably over-ride anything that the AI is doing at any time.
flex0r
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 25, 2023 3:22 pm

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by flex0r »

I understand your calculations and I tried to play with settings to fogure out what works best, but it seems that even if I put 10% as the limit, they still come back to the tanker when there are around 60% full. I tried different values but it does bot change anything.

The tankers are fairly close to the area of operation, around 100nm.
boogabooga
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 am

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by boogabooga »

In order to help you, I'm going to need a scenario, or at least a better description of what you are doing in terms or aircraft types, loadouts, bases, distances, mission types, etc.
The boogabooga doctrine for CMO: Any intentional human intervention needs to be able to completely and reliably over-ride anything that the AI is doing at any time.
flex0r
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 25, 2023 3:22 pm

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by flex0r »

I have attached a save file. You can assign F18's from Singapore to the "patrol" mission and follow their behavior.

I have set 2 refuel points, north and south (although I think only one should be enough, at half the distance between base and patrol area). I have also noticed that if I ask the fighters to "book the tanker" at only 50nm, they will return to base, not even refuel at the first point. From what I know, the fighter should go to the refuel area, but only "book" the tanker when is at 50nm. Well, in this case, when F18 leave base to go to area of patrol, my fighter goes straight to base, ignore refuel point South, even if is closer to him than the base. I have to understand also what this option does.

Tried different settings to that percentage in the mission configurator, now is set on 30%, but you will see that even if I set it to 10% it does not change anything, the fighters leave the patrol area to go and refuel with more than 50% in the tank. The thing is that I can set multiple refuel points and I can play with the fighter abandoning the patrol area and going for refuel at around 60% fuel tank, but that is not efficient. More refuel points on the map = more risks and the fighter does not spend enough time in the patrol area, the mission is not efficient.

I hope I make myself understandable :D
Attachments
South China Clash.7z
(422.32 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
boogabooga
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 am

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by boogabooga »

I'll answer the OP when I get a little more time later...
The boogabooga doctrine for CMO: Any intentional human intervention needs to be able to completely and reliably over-ride anything that the AI is doing at any time.
Dannyp19
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:34 pm

Re: fighters go on loop on refueling mission

Post by Dannyp19 »

I've looked at this. A few problems.
- Mission is an AAW patrol one using an F/A 18E with a Slamer-ATA load out with only 2 drop tanks.
- AAW patrol attack throttle is unspecfied.

So the unit flies toward the patrol area, refuels at the 1st tanker and heads to the patrol area. Once there it spots a hostile contact and heads there on AB. before it gets to engagement...ohoh gotta refuel at 2nd tanker and off it goes. It repeats over and over.

If I set the attack throttle to cruise....well it doesn't need to refuel but its a dead Hornet trying to take on a J-10A at cruise speed with a Slamer load out!

In this mission you might want to use a different load out or change it to a ASuW patrol and keep the Hornet protected with the Arleigh Burke.
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