Discussion: ASW Escort Stations

[HalfLifeExpert]

In a similar vein to a thread I made a month ago: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=393418

The other topic I wanted to discuss on here is the question of ASW Escort Stations.

When you need to protect an asset (be it a carrier, resupply vessel, convoy etc), you have to set up the ASW capable ships to protect it from underwater predators.

What are some good rules-of-thumb to think about when positioning your ASW escort ships? Also what about ASW Helicopter behavior?

(NOTE: This will only account for protecting the asset(s) from Torpedo attack. We'll assume you have good enough air defenses to fend off SLCM attack)

Often a scenario does not give the player enough ASW assets to have full 360 sonar coverage of the asset(s) in question, so what's the best way to maximize defensive coverage with limited assets?

And also, in light of recent events, it goes without saying that any real-world replies must be OSINT ONLY, no classified stuff!

[thewood1]

I'll get ridiculed for this, but I have typically followed guidance from Wiki. 10-25nm from group center, passive, sprint & drift, hopefully a helicopter on board. I keep WRA at under 10nm and hostile only. I then have my inner circle submerged weapons free with WRA 2-5nm. If I have an SSN in the formation, its on the flanks and has a carefully set up patrol zone to avoid conflict with surface escorts. I generally made this up for post 1980s scenarios. Its also very dependent available resources and the location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Carr ... up_tactics

[CV60]

In terms of rules of thumb:
1) What is the threat: Nuclear, AIP, Diesel?
2) What are the enemy numbers expected?
3) What is the threat axis?
4) What is your SOA (Speed of Advance) and how does it expand or contract the threat axis?
5) What are your expected sonar ranges in the current environmental conditions?
6) What is the enemy torpedo range?

Once you answer these questions, you can begin to place your ASW assets. Generally speaking, place the heaviest coverage to cover the threat axis, with decreasing coverage the further you get from the threat axis. If you have sufficient forces, consider some overlap along the threat axis.

[Gunner98]

I think the critical question is the threat, some guidelines I use:
-SSK or modern SSNs (688+ or Sierra+) lean on using active sonar in addition to passive
-Older SSNs, particularly Soviet or Chinese, you can focus on passive detection
-Large units (Carriers, Oilers etc) will be so noisy that they make passive sonar useless within a certain distance.
-The most dangerous threat zone is straight ahead along your course, here is where you are helping the sub by coming to it. Other directions of attack cannot be ignored but a sub is more silent if it is hovering or creeping directly under your path.
-Detecting a sub is one thing, killing it is another. If you're lucky your detecting unit has a weapon in range but if you are relying on passive detection, always have an ASW strike mission ready on the closest and largest deck you have. That is why the S-3 Viking was such a useful asset.
-Using passive sonar, maximize CZs. Since these are at about 30-35nm intervals, having an outer ring of escorts just inside that distance (25nm was mentioned above) is a good practice. By doing this you are extending your ears out further.
-I don't like using an SSN in a formation, so if I have one I'll detach it and let it operate independently well ahead of the group (2-300nm out). Putting these in deep water choke points or likely areas of enemy surface groups is always good for your defence.

So, in a late CW scenario:
-HVU in a tight group at the centre to keep the noisy zone minimized.
-Use active hull and dipping sonar in the noisy zone
-Close escorts using passive, hopefully with VDS or TA sonar to take advantage of CZs, just outside the noisy zone. These are likely your AD ships so that has to be balanced as well.
-A quiet VDS or TA equipped ship trawling directly ahead of your HVUs - sprint/drift between 15-25nm using passive only. This unit will be vulnerable to pop up air threats so consider that. If you have more than one of these units, analyze the threat and place around the formation accordingly.
-If you have enough helo assets, then a passive SB patrol between the 1st and 2nd CZ along your line of advance
-a dedicated ASW strike asset ready on deck
-If you have MPA support, put them on patrol between the 2nd & 3rd CZ or perhaps fixed to a certain threat area. They might get lucky and tag a threat early but the job is to prevent or detect SSK snorkeling, pick up the truly noisy threats and to detect SSGN launches and be able to strike quickly. These could also be your ASW strike asset but they are usually based too far away. A careful analysis of the threat axis is critical with these guys.

When you look at a late CW US CVBG, they have enough assets to do all of this. If you're not so lucky compromise and risk is required.

B

[SeaQueen]

It depends on whether the things you're defending are transiting or staying basically put (e.g. patrolling a box).

If you're escorting a transiting group of ships, you want to spread their escorts out in front. The reason is kinematics. There's something called the "limiting lines of approach" which subtend the space from which enemy submarines might originate and pass within torpedo range of the protected assets. There's math for calculating the LLOA which you can find in Koopman's "Search and Screening," if you're a mathematical heavy lifter. They're a consequence of the fact that generally submarines must go slow, and by going fast, surface ships can frustrate the attempts of a submarine to approach them. I generally have the ASW helicopters patrol in front of the escorts and the MPA patrol in front of them.

If I'm protecting something that's basically stationary or patrolling an area, I tend to set up a similarly layered defense but instead use barrier searches surrounding the protected assets.

In a similar vein to a thread I made a month ago: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=393418

The other topic I wanted to discuss on here is the question of ASW Escort Stations.

When you need to protect an asset (be it a carrier, resupply vessel, convoy etc), you have to set up the ASW capable ships to protect it from underwater predators.

What are some good rules-of-thumb to think about when positioning your ASW escort ships? Also what about ASW Helicopter behavior?

(NOTE: This will only account for protecting the asset(s) from Torpedo attack. We'll assume you have good enough air defenses to fend off SLCM attack)

Often a scenario does not give the player enough ASW assets to have full 360 sonar coverage of the asset(s) in question, so what's the best way to maximize defensive coverage with limited assets?

And also, in light of recent events, it goes without saying that any real-world replies must be OSINT ONLY, no classified stuff!

[Nikel]

I have no idea, so I will quote an expert, M. Vego

Because ASW is largely an art and not a science, the human element is the most important element for ultimate success. No machine, no matter how advanced, can replace the human in making a decision that is often based on imprecise and inaccurate data.

http://armedforcesjournal.com/patroling-the-deep/


Though I wonder whether AI will have also a role in it.

[artao5]

Bit of a necro ....
I just found this video today in my browsing. Almost certainly of interest to the OP.

Coordinated Anti-Submarine Warfare - SONAR, Sonobuoys, USS Stein, USS Badger 20890 HD

[HalfLifeExpert]

Bit of a necro ....
I just found this video today in my browsing. Almost certainly of interest to the OP.

Coordinated Anti-Submarine Warfare - SONAR, Sonobuoys, USS Stein, USS Badger 20890 HD

Most excellent! Thank you!

[artao5]

Most excellent! Thank you!

You're welcome. Make sure to browse the rest of that channel cuz it has TONS of similar content.