Axis players guide.

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tyronec
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RE: Axis players guide.

Post by tyronec »

Thanks for the guide.

But it worries me loads the statement "If Axis does not win in '42, Soviets crush them in '43 or '44". There is the implication the game is screwed by 1-2 years of warfare in there, it's not a matter of 'We'll be dining in Berlin 3 months earlier'. But one or two years!
I stand by my statement, however it is just a point of view from my own experience of playing a few games of StB and VtB. A victory for the Soviets towards the end of '44 might only be 6 months ahead of schedule.
Am saying this for HvH where the Soviet player can make full use of their greater strength and breakthrough power of massed Tank corps., the AI is not going to do that.
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AlbertN
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RE: Axis players guide.

Post by AlbertN »

Thanks for the clarification.
Ultimately HvH is my 'meter' of comparison / aspired reaches of gameplay.
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loki100
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RE: Axis players guide.

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Thanks for the guide.

But it worries me loads the statement "If Axis does not win in '42, Soviets crush them in '43 or '44". There is the implication the game is screwed by 1-2 years of warfare in there, it's not a matter of 'We'll be dining in Berlin 3 months earlier'. But one or two years!
I stand by my statement, however it is just a point of view from my own experience of playing a few games of StB and VtB. A victory for the Soviets towards the end of '44 might only be 6 months ahead of schedule.
Am saying this for HvH where the Soviet player can make full use of their greater strength and breakthrough power of massed Tank corps., the AI is not going to do that.

Tyrone.

You are a brilliant player, you contribute vastly to the game development, but neither you nor I have a clue how the game plays in a HtH match that runs from a 1941 start into the 1943-44 period. Here I am assuming reasonably balanced players, if the Soviet player is clearly far better odds on the game will have been abandoned long before then. Equally if the German player is far better its either over or the HWM is such a hurdle it will end in an axis victory by December 1944.

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Zovs
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by Zovs »

I thought I'd throw this in here.

I figure most know this by now for turn 1 as the Axis (works well for the first 2-3 turns).

So we all know that when you do either a HA or a DA it cost a unit 50% of its CPP.

Therefore if you select for example a German Infantry division that is alone in its hex and break it down into its three regiments each regiment will have 100 CPP. If you then take one of the regiments and use it to do a HA on say a FR or a NKVD regiment that one regiment will now have 50 CPP and the other two regiments will still have 100 CP. If you then recombined that division it will now have 83 CPP.

Here is a few examples.

262 ID (IV Corps. AGS) break the division down and use one regiment to HA the Light Woods (183,183) with the 141st/6th FR MG-Artillery Battalion.

That one regiment will have 50 CPP. Recombine and the 262 now has 83 CPP.

57 ID (LV Corps. AGS) break the division down and use one regiment to HA the Light Woods (186,183) with the 44th/4th FR MG-Artillery Battalion and then select a second (fresh) regiment to HA the Light Woods (187,182) with the 42nd/4th FR MG-Artillery Battalion. Now recombined the 57 ID and the division will have 66 CPP.

You could then if you wanted to, break the 57 ID down again and all three regiments will now have 66 CPP and take one of the regiments and HA the Clear hex (185,183) with the 21st/6th FR MG-Artillery. That regiment then has 33 CPP and if you then recombined the division it now has 55 CPP.

Its all about CPP management for the Germans.

Example #1
297 ID breaks down and one regiment attacks and is at 50 CPP
Image

Recombined its now at 83 CPP
Image

Example #2 (first attack)
57 ID breaks down and two regiments attack different targets both at 50 CPP
Image

Recombined its now at 66 CPP
Image

Example #2.a (second attack)
Break 57 ID down again and use one regiment to attack, its now at 32 CPP the other two at 65
Image

Example #2.b
Recombined its now at 54 CPP
Image

Example #2.c (third attack)
Break 57 ID down once more and use one regiment to attack, its now at 27 CPP
Image

Example #2.d
Recombined its now at 45 CPP
Image
Image
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by ADB_Iceman »

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Except now you find yourself in the fact that logistics is an art not a science.

My experience is that the more intertwined your supply net is, the better it is. Rail usage is slightly random, you have the enemy bombing your railway/railyards, the Axis have Soviet Partisans generating random interdictions, etc. All of these means that if there are two or more ways to get from A to B with supplies, the system will choose the least cost which gives you the most supplies. Even if one path is longer in hexes, sometimes it is the best route.

I'd agree with Carlkay on this one. Tyrone's guide reflects both his particular play style (which is admittedly very good) and also the situation quite a few pre-release patches ago

multiple links make a huge difference in creating the capacity to avoid bottlenecks, esp if you are bringing up large combat units by rail
When I was first testing the game the mantra was to not connect east / west rails .. so in the very first MP game I connect two rails to Minsk .. lo and behold a lot more supply ended up storing in Minsk. But we also strategically placed depots so supply would find a home as it pulsed from Germany ever so Eastward ..

The thought in this post is to describe the exact conditions that congestion occurs or does not occur rather than a general statement ..
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tyronec
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by tyronec »

What I meant by not connecting E-W rail lines is that for Axis if you have two parallel lines running from W to E then it is better not to have a link connecting them N-S because the AI will put some resources into sending supplies along that link rather than sending then E towards the front line.
If you have two lines feeding Minsk and then two lines spreading out from Minsk (or even just one) then that is not what I was describing. Would certainly expect that two lines feeding into Minsk will be better than one.
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Stamb
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by Stamb »

out of curiosity - can you show what your rails system looks like in later turns, like turn 16+?

you are keeping all RAD units in corps HQ to prevent them fixing hexes (breaking) this strategy ?
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tyronec
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by tyronec »

All my recent games have been server and I don't have one ongoing anywhere near T16.
Past games vs AI where I was trying different rail networks out have all gone with the various updates, but am still working to much the same layout as described in the guide.
But yes, I manage the SUs so as not to link up for example the rail line going to Pskov with the one going to Smolensk. Later in the game I would ling them up.
The lark, signing its chirping hymn,
Soars high above the clouds;
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Veterin
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by Veterin »

Hi all,

Does anyone have a good guide for AGS turn 1? I've seen a lot of other Axis players get a lot further than i can so there's clearly a better way :P
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Beethoven1
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by Beethoven1 »

Veterin wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:56 am Hi all,

Does anyone have a good guide for AGS turn 1? I've seen a lot of other Axis players get a lot further than i can so there's clearly a better way :P
in one of tyronec's AARs he has a walkthrough for the south (or at least the Panzers getting to Prosurov/Tarnopol, I think).
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BigDuke66
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by BigDuke66 »

The guide notes there should be 6 artillery per infantry corps. I assume this comes fro the limit of SUs that can be contributed to a fight, but is that artillery class only or do mortar & werfer count too?
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tyronec
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by tyronec »

The guide notes there should be 6 artillery per infantry corps. I assume this comes fro the limit of SUs that can be contributed to a fight, but is that artillery class only or do mortar & werfer count too?
Any of those.
The lark, signing its chirping hymn,
Soars high above the clouds;
Meanwhile, the nightingale intones
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Pat_ge
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Re: Axis players guide.

Post by Pat_ge »

I would add:
Don't play beyond 43.
The game does not stay within its own parameters but instead becomes a sort of third player manipulating the game to make you loose. Ideally the game should play out within its own rules between the players, but there are a few important changes that interfere.
One example is the "upgrading" of Sovjet experience of air units. all Sovjet air units miracously get overnight 5% Exp on top. 3 times. So, even if you play your air game perfectly, which no one does, you end up loosing the air war. That is frustrating for both players.
The game has no real option to play with a mobile, flexible defence. For the Sovjet player this is not so bad, because -if you like to play with a bit of historical touch- the game is very good in allowing this sort of all out defence, heavily dug in and later counterattacking in force. So as German player you can do the same sort of dug in defence and counterattack, but it's not that much fun. If you have played OPART you know the possibility to decide how decisive you want to attack or defend and tactical and local reserve status resulting in very realistic moves. That is something I miss here. Delaying combat is impossible. Either you stay, get beaten and have wrecked units for the next 3 or 4 turns or you retreat and give up your dug in positions. A retreat is treated as a lost battle, even if your opponents casualties are 10:1 and you often have a perfect leader fired because of that effect.
In OPART you would simply give the order not to accept high casualties and treat ground for time.
Also the two reserve stances are highly functional. A tactical reserve will almost always get in the battle, which is realistic in one week turns. Here your reserves can easily be stopped. Put a cavalry brigade next to an elite korps and the latter will not care to do its job. And I also have the feeling that lower quality Sovjet troops react with a much higher probabilty than their higher quality counter parts.
Next: Your units get weaker because of the organizational changes no matter if the historical trigger is there or not. On top it looks like losses for mechanized elements are way higher than for their leg counterparts. So losswise it might make sense to reduce your mobile component and put them in the boxes and up your infantery units. Like this your line becomes denser as you can exchange one mobile for 2-4 infantery units. Problem then will be the headquaters.
Which is another issue. Not only has this restriction no historic base but even more so as the infantery divs go from 3 to 2 regiments, i.e. get weaker. Also their quality gets lower even if there is no apparent reason for this. Historically the need to get troops out was the trigger. If you have a million manpower left or a thousand pilots that should not happen, but it does. And your command ability does not change accordingly. So you are to a certain extent forced to up your mobile units in order to get more power to the ground. A vicious circle ...

I was eager to play beyond 43 because I was expecting to give way and retreat in some sort of clinging to woods in the north and center and a mobile defence in the open south, but we ended up dug in and me retreating in big steps to the next defendable position and are both a bit frustrated now. From my game partner I heard more than once: I want to win on my own, not by change of factors. We both enjoyed very much the first two years and could not wait for the next turn but now we are just playing on because you don't want to break after 170 turns ...
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