1944 Mod - A request for Russian modifications

[Cavalry Corp]

Guys,

I am making a mod of the 44 Campaign to make it slightly more of a challenge for the Soviets. I will post it soon and we will be doing a full play test with AAR.

I am a Axis player (mainly lacking time to learn the Soviets).

I am interested in any minor modifications that could be applied to the Russian side, especially any leaders you feel could be tweaked a bit for experience gained in the war until summer 44. I only want a handful, as the axis only received a few small changes.

I am nearly finished but wanted to post this opportunity.

I also want to add a few buildable SUs, mainly battalions, but I cannot figure out how you actually build them from the screens inside the SC. Are there any takers?

Cav

[Wiedrock]

I do not own the DLC, but generally you could make Support Squads have 2CV, this'd be the easiest.
Since I do not own the DLC I don't know whether they use the "reduced Shtat" Soviet TOEs. If they do, then you can ignore (somewhat) the first two links I'll post.

I am making a mod of the 44 Campaign to make it slightly more of a challenge for the Soviets.

Historical changes with "larger" impact with the bias you want, which you may want to look at:

• Soviets
  • Soviet Rifle Squad 43 Manpower increase to 11Men [ID:797] see post, too many manpower in Squads
    → change from 11 to 10 (at least)
  • Soviet SMG Squad sizes [ID:798, ID:815] SMG Squad manpower too many
    → change from 11 to 10 (at least)
  • Soviet Medium/Heavy SU Brigade [OB:2122, OB:2123] more Support + changed Squads
    → need the reduced Manpower for their Squads and more Support Squads (the latter may improve their performance as Tiger killers.)
• Germans
  • German Infantry Division 45 [OB:475] - Weapons and Manpower Issues see Post
  • German Infantry Division 44 - Manpower & Support Squads & everything else see post
  • give VGD Division TOEs 162 Panzerschrecks (currently 72) [see]
  • Sturm Squads [ID:83,478] Manpower is 8 → change to 9
    Note, it is little more complex but in short:
    Initially the Squad was 9 Men and 3 Squads per Company, one of the 3 Squads had 3 Rifle-grenades. Germans moved those 3 Rifle Grenades "out of" the Squad so all 3 Squads were equal and those 3 Rifle granade guys were placed to the Company Leader to be assigned by him. Hence Devs removed them from the game into Support Squads.

  • I also want to add a few buildable SUs, mainly battalions

    Missing Fortress/Infantry Flak/MG Battalions
    → The numbers you can find on the links. TOEs would most likely also needed to be adjusted (see Panzerschrecks), the whole type of battalions is missing in the game.
    They were newly created, so normally in game terms they should spawn in as Units with all Manpower but without "larger guns".

When changing TOE you also need to add/remove Support Squads in a way that Manpower stays the same (unless other/better Manpower numbers are known for that type of Division during that time).

[Wiedrock]

• Sturm Squads [ID:83,478] Manpower is 8 → change to 9
  Note, it is little more complex but in short:
  Initially the Squad was 9 Men and 3 Squads per Company, one of the 3 Squads had 3 Rifle-grenades. Germans moved those 3 Rifle Grenades "out of" the Squad so all 3 Squads were equal and those 3 Rifle granade guys were placed to the Company Leader to be assigned by him. Hence Devs removed them from the game into Support Squads.

Leaving them out is like leaving out the early war 50mm Mortars.

[Cavalry Corp]

Ok I am going to look at this tomorrow.... Did you have any comments on improving or indeed making worse any stats on Soviet leaders?

I have just tweaked a few axis ones that have been around in good positions for what have been some time... they would not all be as they were in 1941 would they?

Thanks for the unit suggestions I will look at it.

Cav

[Wiedrock]

Ok I am going to look at this tomorrow.... Did you have any comments on improving or indeed making worse any stats on Soviet leaders?

I have just tweaked a few axis ones that have been around in good positions for what have been some time... they would not all be as they were in 1941 would they?

No I am not an "Leaders guy", not interested in individuals. What stats they have is anyways largely subjective and debatable.
But you are right, in a normal game Leaders can increase their skills.

[Cavalry Corp]

Indeed, you are correct. But within the game, some leaders would have been improved, and they do have a bearing on stuff, so they must be considered. No one else has suggested anything so will leave as is unless someone says x or Y should now have better initiative or admin

BTW is there any suggested TOE changes to any other axis units? What about Luftwaffe Divs, Jaeger and Mountain?

Panzers??

Cav

[Wiedrock]

There are so many things I have on my list.

Like:
The Heer Panzer Brigade had only around 2.2k Manpower, the one in Norway only 1.9k.
The normal Panzer Brigade lacks things like:
6xSdKfz251/16
2xSdKfz-251 Panzerwerfer
1xMotorcycle Squad
4xMot. Recon Section
and it needs to be removed:
2xMech Recon Section
6xPanzerschreck Squad
2xSdKfz-251/17
...this doesn't mean there ever existed such exactly built Brigade (most of them were anyways quickly destroyed, during peacetime they'd have existed like that).
...then there is something about the Squads since the intention during this time was to Equip 1 or 2 Sqads per Company with STG44 in some TOEs (initially also called MP44, hence EVERYONE back then thought it was a SMG/MP40 being meant, hence we have SMG Squads in the game...maybe some leaders actually formed such squads in the end, not sure).

Jaeger and Mountain?

44 Jäger had ~14k Manpower and 44 Gebirgsjäger had ~16k Manpower. Giving the Jäger little less manpower, let's say 13k wouldn't be too bad tho, since the support those men give just has no effect in the game (like quicker movement, bonus in rough terrain and such, what they were intended for). Both those 14k and 16k numbers are numbers for the "Flachlandeinsatz" (flat-land-use), but mostly Divisions in Italy/Balkans used the Mountain-use TOEs with like 3k more manpower as Support ...so theoretically we would need 2 TOEs each to be correcter than correct ...)
Besides this their Infantry Squads always were 10Men, as were the Bicycle Recon Squads (both 9 men in Game), so one could add some Squads or go the painful way creating more Squad types. Similiarly it goes for the Motorized Companies of the Pioneers.
Both Jäg/Geb need double their Panzerschreck Squads. The SdKfz Flak needs to be exchanged for normal towed 2cm Flak for both (for Gebirgs for sure, Jäger had different options 12x2cm or 9x3,7cm or SdKfz with 2cm) -> But this also doesn't mean that IRL there never was a Gebirgs unit with SP Flak...if they needed they mounted a Flak on a Jeep
The Gebirgs also needs +4 additional leIG18 from the Recon Battalion of the Division.

What about Luftwaffe Divs

LW Felddivision is hard to say, they were transformed to the Heer and some/many got therefore new TOEs like normal Infantry Divisions (somewhat).

Panzers??

The Panzergrenadier and Panzer Divisions we have different ones. Hence they are different and it is harder to "make a point" and overall for sure it is nice to have some variation in TOE.
In 45 those both were somewhat mixed together and TOEs quickly changed, some had many tanks (I guess theoretical ideas) and some plannings had few tanks (I guess more rational planning).
Both Panzergrenadier TOEs need add 9x3,7cm towed Flak and I couldn't find them having any Panzerschreck Squads, so those should be 0. Other differences may be related/intended towards the usage of the armored cars/Half-Tracks or RL equipment I guess (like having 2xleIG18 in a Division, no idea where and why this would make sense ...maybe for training ).

any other axis units

One thing I just looked at is the "44b Hun. Infantry Division" TOE, a quickfix is to reduce the 120mm Mortar to 8, the Zrinyi II to 10 and the PaK40 to 21. More you can find here on page 109.

As you see there is no easy answer to anything.

I am working on a Mod including all such findings (whether they are "historically correct" or not is up for debate) with added info on how to Mod them into your game and provide the Sources, but especially the last 2 are lots of work to photoshop/cut the stuff together, so not sure how far this will go.

[Cavalry Corp]

Ok, I worked a lot of this in - as the values have mainly increased, it will mean units will have more individual and seemingly random TOE, which should feel right.

Some of the things you suggested are already in some of the TOEs, from what I can see.

I did not change absolutely everything but put in all the key points and changes. Would you like me to send it to you for a look over once it is done?

I would like to play it with my colleague and see how it goes.

Please remind me what you said to change about support squad values?



Cav

[Cavalry Corp]

Oh, and BTW, I still cannot work out how to build an axis unit - I see there are units that are buildable in the OOB, but in the game, there is no tab where I can see how to actually create them....I put a post up, but no reply so far.

Cav

[Wiedrock]

Please remind me what you said to change about support squad values?

2 CV for the Support Ground Element Type.

Some of the things you suggested are already in some of the TOEs, from what I can see.

I don't have the Scenario, so I don't know.

Would you like me to send it to you for a look over once it is done?

Afaik I can not open DLC Scen without DLC, so no.