Winter 'Shielding' non working

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AlbertN
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Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by AlbertN »

I just noticed that the City / Urban supposed safe haven for the Germans do not work in winter, and that their panzers are getting damaged just by standing still.

Here the 'virgin' 23rd Pz. Division that arrived fresh and intact from the reserves, railed last turn up to Smolensk and ... simply derailed. I mean, ideally it is untrained. But it's clear trains derailed.
Curiosity set me to check the unit to see if the getting out of 'train mode' did anything ... and it seems the cranes and technicians did a bad job ...

This unit litterally was "Arrive on Map fresh and intact, rail to where it is - Smolensk" - Soviet Turn - Logistic Phase for Axis - "This situation with a lot of damaged panzers".

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I decided to check the other Panzer formation that recently arrived and was put in another Urban. That one instead of being far from the front has a lvl 2 fort.
That Panzer arrived there via rail. Moved 1 hex to the east to help defend the adjacent hex for -1- Soviet turn. And then moved back into the Urban of Orel.

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I do not believe this is intended, and sincerely hope it's a bug. [Given in general the Panzers get damaged way too easily by moving around or just to stay put in some spot in harsh weather]

Save is server game vs Deaniks if needed.
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Beethoven1
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by Beethoven1 »

Bread mentioned to me a while back that Panzers were getting damaged in winter when being railed to cities. So it is possible that what may be bugged is they get damaged while being railed, as opposed to being damaged in the cities themselves. Either way, it is a problem and should be looked into.
AlbertN
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by AlbertN »

Yes - IF you are out in the open the 99% of the AFVs damage.

It's quite amusing as non AFV components that are 'motorized' (ie armoured cards, motorized squads, etc) do not suffer the same. Thanks God. Because truly I saw some panzer division have 99% of the panzers damaged on the spot for 1 turn or in 2 turns maybe sticking out in the snows to fight.
Stamb
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by Stamb »

actually it is strange that motorized squads do not suffer from a blizzard as AFVs
i would expect them to act like a simple non motorized infantry
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AlbertN
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by AlbertN »

I think it's a matter of coding.

Like in the battle report one has 'Infantry' 'Artillery' and 'AFV' - that damaging effect hits only AFV as macro-type of element.
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Joel Billings
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by Joel Billings »

Do you have a save with a unit in urban, and one not in urban? It sounds like someone else is saying that outside of urban it would be much worse off. Do the rules say that the urban would totally prevent the problems, or just help mitigate them (I assume the latter).
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AlbertN
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Re: Winter 'Shielding' non working

Post by AlbertN »

This is an old server game started time ago - alas I do not have a direct save but I am quite aware outside of 'urban' the damage is almost total in 1-2 turns.
Like 90%+ damaged AFVs.

I mean - at this stage the 'optimal play' is to just wait for April to start sending panzers IF in urban / city they still take 25% of AFVs damaged in 1 turn.
I am about to open next turn though - to see what is to happen. In case it interests you to take also that save, feel free to.

So ... this is the next turn situation:

The Pz in Smolensk, that dug up to lvl 1 fort suffered a lot. Considering the frontline is slightly east of Vyazma - that unit to not have seen combat at all is trashed and may as well just make a quick return to the West TB.

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The Pz in Orel seems to have had it a bit better - I assume the Urban + lvl 2 fort combo may have helped? Or maybe Fort lvl 2 is more relevant? Or rolls?

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If I stick to Poland - all is good. That Panzer that made it on map smartly got stopped in Poland before it went into Russia were tanks are crippled just because it's snow.
As said above and now confirmed new meta. Panzer Divisions all go to West, return them with mud in Spring '41. Or something like that. Historical or not - this will be THE WAY to play once players realize it will simply save 100+ panzers per division (assuming each division has still that amount of panzers from the number they start with).

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Now - frontline Panzers:

Yours truly in the Leningrad area, with more than adequate supplies and sitting in lvl 1 fort have most of their panzers damaged. Bear in mind it's march. These things had 2-3 panzers operational til February and then started to repair their stuff slowly.
On a sidenote - the morale hammered these units (as anything that is Axis) during the Winter. Despite 1 defeat only, they're well under the 85 NM.

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The rules say that units in protected hexes suffer less damage.

Now I would argue that anything past say 5 hexes from enemy units should not be suffering in general that type of attrition - even the less 10 hexes away but that's just me thinking; and there is the manifest work around to simply remove the whole Panzerforce from the map or almost.

One can argue how much should suffer damage.

But yes - will wait 1st April and start shipping panzers back in good order without the need to get them on the front in broken status.
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