Seriously how do you GC (Germany)?

[MarkShot]

I am quite familiar with the game and have played scenarios. So, I am not a total noob.

But the 215 turn GC is whole new animal.

How does one make rapid progress? Do you risk breaking the line and just thrust the knife deep or advance cautiously?

I find it impossible to do an orderly invasion like it is a parade. This is due to terrain variation/frontage/resistance. So, my force are becoming messy despite I try to clean up at the end of each turn.

Every player has checklist and sequence of tasks like:

* Plan air to support ground or gather intel. Don't forget to step up with the line, and be patient for supply to catch up.

* Focus on your objectives while using out of range forces for flank security.

* Keep laying track and exploiting ports. Depots/railyards/ports ...

* Try to keep command points from overflowings especially for Assault HQ in bounds.

* Try to get the optimal HQ placement

<review TBs and still more ... I have list else where>

But here is the thing, despite I have this big initial advantage I feel my attack is this huge bumbling/stumbling joke. I think it lacks any true martial elegance.

Would some of you hardcore veterans be able to throw me some tips of how to make this look like a military invasion and not a game of "king of the hill" on the school playground! (I promise never to use anything I learn against you. I don't pbem.)

Thank you very, very much!

[Wiedrock]

All good plans begin with lines on a map.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

My first thought would be that having everything too orderly is actually inefficient. To make good progress you need to be flexible enough to react to and exploit opportunities that may not have been immediately obvious at the beginning of the turn. This flexibility will entail a level of inherent 'messiness'.

That said my two suggestions would be as follows

1) Use the OOB to structure your thinking and planning. So for example you could pick a broad objective of where you want an Army Group to be in 8 turns and how it is going to maneuver it's Armies to achieve this objective. That gives you a template to set a 4 turn objective/plan for each Army and then 2 turn plans for their Corps.

2) When you move a unit, don't spend its whole MP allowance in one go. I tend to do one 'sweep' where I move my units down to 12MP/35MP for motorized; another sweep where I move them down to 8MP/20MP and then a final sweep where I move them to their final positions. This way it is easier to move units with reference to the positions of neighbouring units and to the 'bigger picture'.

You asked

How does one make rapid progress? Do you risk breaking the line and just thrust the knife deep or advance cautiously?

My answer would be that in the first few turns you should be very aggressive and be pushing your Panzers through to their territorial objectives without worrying too much about what the Soviets are doing. Once the Soviet army recovers somewhat and starts putting up more of a resistance the emphasis switches from using your Panzers for taking territory to using them to inflict heavy casualties by making follow up attacks on units that your infantry has already beaten that turn.

[MarkShot]

Do you guys try to follow VP screen pacing or just play it as you want to?

[Fraggo5]

Chasing V.P is part of the early game so as not to trigger an early auto loss scenario, as Sammy5IsAlive posted you also need to push as far as you can .

My answer would be that in the first few turns you should be very aggressive and be pushing your Panzers through to their territorial objectives without worrying too much about what the Soviets are doing. Once the Soviet army recovers somewhat and starts putting up more of a resistance the emphasis switches from using your Panzers for taking territory to using them to inflict heavy casualties by making follow up attacks on units that your infantry has already beaten that turn.

Big encirclements help too so as to take large numbers of soviet troops out of the battle.The soviets hardly ever attack back until the onset of winter (against A.I ) by which time you should have your stop line supplied and dug in as we do have the benefit of hindsight.
I also rearrange army groups and corp commanders as well as S.U before I start as Hey i’m the guy in charge here .
I would recommend looking at “The Hobby Generals “ current youtube campaign start as I don’t believe I have seen anyone make such a successful go at the first 20 turns , he just misses the turn 16 auto win .
https://youtu.be/UPIEkB2XZZM?list=PLa3d ... vtx3OkKBm3
Good luck

[RKhan]

Like many people here, I've read a lot of WW2 military history.

Almost all of the campaigns were messy affairs. Luck was as much a part of it as anything. Germany did well when they could achieve surprise, and their mobility and flexibility helped them to exploit opportunities. By the middle of the war (game) these are few and far between.

So, maybe the game is just reproducing the actual dynamic of WW2 battles? If so, kudos to the developers!

RKhan

[Nazcatraz]

The only times you could do offensive easily as Germany are June to November 1941 and something like June to November 1942. Those are when the Soviet AI gets inactive. As always, attack with tanks, hold the line with infantry. And then from 43 to 44 you just try your best to hold against Soviet while encircling them. By 1944 they their front should disintegrate.

[MarkShot]

I am finding how amazingly time consuming the GC is compared to scenarios. Also, seeing how spread out my forces are even if I am attacking into the USSR as they are melting away ... I am just asking myself; what were they thinking?

I know Hitler said kick in the front door and the whole rotten house would collapse. But it is one F-ing huge rotten house.

No wonder they believed in racial superiority as no sane person knowing that we are equals would walk into such a fight.

---

But then Alexander did do the amazing. It is what makes history interesting, since in the end life may truly be die rolls just at a higher level.

[Jango32]

The AI will not really attack you back until November or December so you can get away with anything. It's not out of the question to win by turn 16 from VPs.

[MarkShot]

The AI will not really attack you back until November or December so you can get away with anything. It's not out of the question to win by turn 16 from VPs.

I am wrapping up Turn #4 at 425 VPs. I got distracted the last few days specing, ordering, and configuring some new server hardware.

[MKmark]

Think that the mistake of german was Lenningrad if was taken, germans have a port, they relive Findland and you can set 6000 tanks there to attemp Mosku from a port.

I was the first(sorrysorry) on turn 16 victory 10 years ago and can tell that nothing change. thats mean that you kill fast 4.000.000 soviets dead, but soviets still have 4.000.ooo million left or more and then you have the line 1 spot, and soviets have the line too but 4 spot deep.

take kenningrad. and rest and refir your tanks there.

[06 Maestro]

I am finding how amazingly time consuming the GC is compared to scenarios. Also, seeing how spread out my forces are even if I am attacking into the USSR as they are melting away ... I am just asking myself; what were they thinking?

The time involved in the opening turns is a bit daunting. Fortunately, it gets easier as the campaign progresses. I had turns where the AI side took much longer than I did.

I know Hitler said kick in the front door and the whole rotten house would collapse. But it is one F-ing huge rotten house.

Yep, quite a large place--units can get lost easily. Franz Halder noted early in the campaign that "The vastness of Russia devours us".

No wonder they believed in racial superiority as no sane person knowing that we are equals would walk into such a fight.

Almost invincible. Some decent artic equipment, stronger tanks, AT guns that were effective rather than just door knockers, a few hundred thousand more trucks, single engine fighters that could land in mud without the landing gear breaking, and a few other little things, they would have been invincible--maybe.
---

But then Alexander did do the amazing. It is what makes history interesting, since in the end life may truly be die rolls just at a higher level.

May of 1940 gave some cause for hope in achieving the impossible. However, the operation as planned was quite impossible.

[MarkShot]

So, fight is heating up in Finland. Should I be transferring divisions or just transfer and entire corps?

Thanks.

[Jango32]

There is no reason to. Get everything that you can on the map.

[MarkShot]

There is no reason to. Get everything that you can on the map.

You thought you lose VP if you do not keep the TBs sufficiently populated, and that in the early game you can afford to pick up extra into the TB to pick up bonus VPs which will boost your score?

My source:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... l_i-kTdK9I

[Jango32]

You win the game by getting as many high morale German counters on the map as possible, especially in SP. The TB events are only a concern if the game reaches 1943+.

But if you have managed to gobble up so many on-map VPs with the extra units then VPs from TB events are never an issue.

[MarkShot]

You win the game by getting as many high morale German counters on the map as possible, especially in SP. The TB events are only a concern if the game reaches 1943+.

But if you have managed to gobble up so many on-map VPs with the extra units then VPs from TB events are never an issue.

Okay, I see your point. Things cannot go badly enough for you in the TBs for Germany to collapse if you win by Sudden Death.

Although some might consider this to be somewhat of an exploit ... since the game's intention is to try to simulate the ebb and flow of the main map theater. I mean this is one of the reasons I don't really like HOI4, but own it ... it is all about the meta & min/max ... and why not, the game makes no attempt to accurately model the subject matter.

Thanks for clarifying that for me!