Games 1943 +

[Cavalry Corp]

Full inf DIv just arrived from Finland and still has CV 1 !!!

112creenshot 2024-08-26 174034.jpg (122.91 KiB) Viewed 710 times

[K62]

Full inf DIv just arrived from Finland and still has CV 1 !!!

112creenshot 2024-08-26 174034.jpg

Low experience, low ammo. Put it on refit in the back for a couple of turns and it should improve a lot.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Did you have a chance to have a look at some of the production/logistics info to try to work out why your troops aren't getting (many) replacements?

[M60A3TTS]

Low experience, low ammo.

Don't forget no/minimal prep points either.

[AlbertN]

It will grow to say 4-5 CV when fully rested (Unit has 30+ Fatigue), supplied and ammunitioned and with 55 Morale / Exp. (at 0 CPP)

While neatly having 20% more Support than required by default.

That is besides the other problems, of the 'cycles' of how to refit units, and which pieces of equipment can get received roughly at the frontlines that are narrated about.

[Nuklearius]

The Replacement system in WiE2 is trash and has been since release. I'm surprised that there are so few threads about it.
I have made a test a while ago where I gave Axis unlimited ressources and material/tanks in the editor, and then had the AI battle the Soviet AI until blizzard.
The German TOE still dropped to 2.5 million by 1st February 1941. They have 50000 of every tanktype and riflemen/guns in the stockpile but none goes towards their soldiers. Their tank divisions sit at 20-80 tanks but just don't get any reinforcements.
From my observations reinforcements simply do not happen if they are anywhere near the frontline. It hits the Axis player much harder, especially late war because they can't afford to cycle out units from the frontline anymore. But even behind the frontline I can't get reinforcements to work consistently only the Reserves seem to function.
I do not know why the devs added this reinforcements rule, in WiE 1 the same test will instantly max out your OOB while in this one production/stockpiles basically doesn't matter.
It was actually one of the reasons why I dropped this game and instead played War in the East 1 because the micro of cycling units to the reserves constantly because they degrade on the frontline is so boring and unimmersive.

[chaos45]

Replacements work and flow just fine----just need to be on fully functional Depot connected to the main rail line....even just being within 3 hexes will usually get you some replacements.

Sitting a division on depot that has an HQ will usually get the division to 90%+ ToE as long as its on refit and replacements are available.

Works for both sides just fine.

[Denniss]

Axis is severely manpower limited so that may hinder many reinforcements to be sent out.
Game engine seems to like sending out support squads instead of other equipment even if the unit already has more support than currently required. (just my personal feeling)
Lots of manpower is often bound in transfer pool.

[Nuklearius]

Axis is severely manpower limited so that may hinder many reinforcements to be sent out.
Game engine seems to like sending out support squads instead of other equipment even if the unit already has more support than currently required. (just my personal feeling)
Lots of manpower is often bound in transfer pool.

Replacements work and flow just fine----just need to be on fully functional Depot connected to the main rail line....even just being within 3 hexes will usually get you some replacements.

Sitting a division on depot that has an HQ will usually get the division to 90%+ ToE as long as its on refit and replacements are available.

Works for both sides just fine.

I'm surprised that there is even a debate about this. Frontline replacements barely happen in WiE2, it was the very first thing I noticed when I played the game at release, all my Soviet divisions degraded to 7000 men and below and were then destroyed despite plenty of armaments and manpower. That didn't happen in WiE1.
Axis are hit harder by this effect during lategame since they can't cycle units into the reserve and are exposed to constant combat.
In my test game I gave Axis 50000 units of every tank/squad/plane and 80 Million Manpower/Armaments/vehicles. I then had both sides set to AI control and let them battle until February 1st 1942.
Despite all the ressources the Axis combined TOE dropped to just 3 Million men on the map, 1.5-2 million men understrength of what they should be. AFV strength also dropped to 3100 tanks roughly half of what it should be.

This test also matches all my personal experiences with the game, Frontline reinforcements are very slow and seem to barely go over 5% of TOE per turn. Even moderate combat can exceed these numbers. Constant combat like defending during Bagration will kill your troops regardless of your stockpile.
In the 1944 scenario you will have to send your troops to the reserve to build them back up, only the Reserve is reliably working and will bring your troops back up to 100% within one turn, as long as you have the ressources.
Or just play WiE 1, reinforcements work better there.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

I can only provide snapshots and say I see the opposite. Here are three snapshots of replacements, at range, coming into my units on turn 6. You can see that I am "not" on a depot nor even close. But all of these PZ divisions received a decent sum of replacements being at range. At least in my opinion they did. You can make your own determination if replacements are working, but for me in my game I am receiving replacements, at range, in current patch 1.04. Here are the pictures.


13 PZ gets 438 replacements at 13 hexes away on turn 6

13PZ replacements.png (1.06 MiB) Viewed 436 times

10 PZ gets 435 replacements at 15 hexes away on turn 6

10 PZ replacements.png (1.05 MiB) Viewed 436 times

11 PZ gets 607 replacements at 26 hexes, 17 hexes, and 22 hexes away on turn 6

11PZ replacements.png (1.09 MiB) Viewed 436 times

[HardLuckYetAgain]

On turn 7 11th PZ received 1230 replacements at 15 hexes range. Shrug, maybe I am doing something wrong. The other two PZ divisions I showed earlier did receive replacements but was under 100 on each.

11 PZ Turn 7 replacements.png (1.19 MiB) Viewed 433 times

[Denniss]

Dominic invested a lot of work into the replacement system of WitE1, don't know if anything was backported into WitE2.
AFAIR units in normal or reserve mode are capped at 80% TOE for replacements, probably even less if enemies are nearby.

[tyronec]

AFAIR units in normal or reserve mode are capped at 80% TOE for replacements, probably even less if enemies are nearby.

That makes sense from what I am seeing.
IMO it is not either extreme, replacements are a problem to deal with for front line units but it is not too harmful.
You need to keep recycling units to depots to keep them full, so on a static front line have maybe one in 10 units move to a depot and REFIT every turn. If you have a depot on the front line you can do this without an extra unit in reserve.
Why the game is done this way I don't understand, it adds an excessive amount of admin work that adds nothing to the playability.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Neither of the previous two post is true in my current game.

I received replacements Within 7 hexes on turn 7. Last turn the Soviets were within 4 hexes. So, the theory propagated about distance is not true, at least in my game and I am pretty sure we are playing the same game.


On turn 6 Soviets were 4 hexes away (marked in yellow). Turn 7 Soviets are 7 hexes away(marked in red). You can also see 11Pz was in "Reserve" mode too

11ps hexes from enemy.png (163.85 KiB) Viewed 336 times

Again, turn 7 replacements, you can see turn 6 replacements in my previous post this thread.

Replacements.png (289.96 KiB) Viewed 336 times

Here is my TOE, which is above 80%.

11PZ TOE.png (56.87 KiB) Viewed 336 times

What I have found is that you can and will get replacements if you do certain things. Not going into detail here(but a clue is in the 2nd picture of this post). It is not immediate but can be done. We all like instant gratification but I have learned to be methodical. Now having said that IF you need immediate replacement you can go to the depot. It works close or far away the same from my experience(make sure you have the freight to accommodate )

[Stamb]

Had no problems refitting Soviet units in Poland without a need to move them on top of a depots. All you need is freight, trucks, manpower. Also focus on units that you really want to refit, instead of trying to refit for all units on the map. If you are willing to invest multiple hours/days per turn then you can go and adjust max TOE of each unit to prevent it from getting replacements and specifically set 100% TOE for a units that you want to refit. I am pretty sure that even without refit mode they will get replacements, but you can also add refit mode on top of that.

Also players, often Axis side, are limiting their max TOE for exactly the same reason. To prevent reinforcements from coming in and instead get ammo/fuel.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Had no problems refitting Soviet units in Poland without a need to move them on top of a depots. All you need is freight, trucks, manpower. Also focus on units that you really want to refit, instead of trying to refit for all units on the map. If you are willing to invest multiple hours/days per turn then you can go and adjust max TOE of each unit to prevent it from getting replacements and specifically set 100% TOE for a units that you want to refit. I am pretty sure that even without refit mode they will get replacements, but you can also add refit mode on top of that.

Also players, often Axis side, are limiting their max TOE for exactly the same reason. To prevent reinforcements from coming in and instead get ammo/fuel.

Well said and is what I am seeing

Refit is just a director of where you would like replacements. BUT if you have everyone on refit what is the use

[tyronec]

I did a test, 3 units only on REFIT.

198th is on a depot behind the front line.
9th is not on a depot, on the front line.
73rd is on a depot on the front line.

Before:

a.jpg (22.03 KiB) Viewed 256 times

After:

b.jpg (23.24 KiB) Viewed 256 times

Units on depots can REFIT to 100%, whether on the front line or not.
Units not on Depots on the front line (in enemy ZOC) don't generally REFIT as much.

Conclusion.
If you want to keep your units on the front line up to strength then you need to cycle them to depots for REFIT.
Also, when you are doing that don't have too many other units (maybe 10-15 divisions) on REFIT elsewhere as they will draw off the replacements.

[chaos45]

I would say read the manual on supply and how replacements flow.

Within 3 hexes of a depot is assumed horse/cart and doesn't require much if any truck use---this is key to not burn up all your trucks hauling supply and save them for hauling stuff to extended units.

Your supply priority level puts you in line for replacements/supply and also allows the units to roll in more steps of the process from my understanding---thus if you want more supplies/replacements need to be priority 4

Next is refit--refit again influences how many rolls your commander gets to get stuff and has a chance to get more per rolls is my understanding from the rule book.....

So if you want units to resupply and get mens then they should be on Priority 4 and on refit to get the best results/most roll chances to achieve resupply and more mens.

If you really want to fill a units up---put it on a depot stacked with an HQ, put on priority 4 and refit and if stuff is available it should fill up almost completely.....keep in mind all this is also based on command rolls....so better admin commanders do a much better job of getting their units stuff and mens esp if they are getting more rolls and more stuff per roll based on priority and refit.

Germany in 1941 will probably have issues with max throughput at the depot as most small depots only seems to get 800-1k or so total points of supply/replacements the bigger rail depots will hit 2-3k so you need lots of depots to generate requirements and to refit units if you want more than just supply.

Hope that helps

[Cavalry Corp]

All these posts make sense, and I do not disagree - it all seems to work for me too, until the end of 42 , which is why this post is called 43+ . It seems most games end in the 42 period, and most posts are about the gameplay in that period. I also can get a lot of upgrades and stuff in this period as well.

It's a total enigma on how to get units ( Axis) to refit and get decent equipment into units 43+. One weird thing, though, as an example is that the two Co-sized Pz units upgraded to King Tigers almost as soon as they were available and soon after they came on the map, but nothing else has. There has got to be something wrong somewhere. I put units in NR and TB. with OKH, on Berlin hex, any sized depot, etc., it seems like nothing works for SU, especially. To be honest, we should not have to play with total smoke and mirror system, which is my growing fear.

I do have success with things like Stug X and the AT units moving the units from NR to TB, but I have no idea why it works. The rules say NR is the holy place, but it's absolutely not true. Units in the NR should get all available and best equipment - I thought that is what the designers were after seeing.

We are now in November 44, and I will post some screens. What do you want to see?

Cav

[M60A3TTS]

If it would be of any help, I am around on Discord and we can go over a few things. Or if you want to send me a copy of the game file, I can look it over as well. Otherwise, some of the other folks who have contributed some answers are excellent sources of info.