New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
Moderator: Saint Ruth
New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
I have posted two new scenarios on the mod and scenarios subforum to download. They are designed to work with version 1.06 of the WEGO engine. Please feel free to send comments/Qs on the forum or via PM.
Many tanks to user NIckgen for the AMAZING map for Bryanks and to user Sharif for helping me with testing!
Bryanks Front Attacks! :
This is a medium sized scenario simulating an historical, large Soviet offensive in the Voronezh sector in the Summer of '42. This is a forgotten battle, but almost the size of the Ardennes offensive, with 800+ tanks involved! I picked it as both sides get to go on the offensive and the asymmetry of the operational situation. There is now extensive research on the event and I felt it was well suited for the engine, keeping the same scale as the main Stalingrad scenarios. Played human vs human it will be most balanced/historical with the more experienced player taking the Axis side, but it will be fun to see if a better Front commander 'd be able to do better than the historical Red Army Generals!
I believe the AI will also provide be a good challenge as it has been improved considerably in the recent patches. The relatively small scenario size allowed me to give it fairly detailed instructions. It's still a largely scripted AI but give it a try and make sure to check the info and game aids are in the scenario thread (btw with the WEGO update 1.06 even the standard scenarios will play better!)
Soviet Farm: This a small (Corps/Kampfgruppe scale), but challenging scenario designed specifically to try some new possibilites with the engine: new terrain types and the option to call in optional reinforcements (with a VP penalty) as allowed by the new reinforcement triggers (and some design creativity). Sovet Farm has significant replay value and I'd recommend it after trying the official tutorial scenario.
Designer Notes and Future Work
As the WEGO engine and its AI have gone significant improvements/bug fixes from the earlier versions (readiness recovery now works as intended and the AI uses all its resources if programmed accordingly). I feel WEGO is now ready to be taken to new directions. I had previously designed scenarios for other engines (TOAW, V&V) and my background is in numerical simulations, so I got really interested in the possibilities of Brian Kelly's WEGO engine, especially when used in situations were the WEGO approach has clear advantages over the standard IGOYOUGO one (fluid frontlines, relatively low counter density, poor intelligence) and I believe it can be successfully used as is in non WW2 settings and/or different spatial/time scales.
I will use this thread to post semi un-regularly on my future projects and design choices (sometimes slightly different/complementary to those adopted in the main scenarios). I thank in advance the engine designer Brian Kelly for a lot of suggestions/help and even a few changes to the engine (I can be persistent..). I also thanks the scenario designers involved with "WEGO Stalingrad" for encouraging the community to play with the engine and design their own scenarios.
As posted in the Mods/Scenario section, my next scenarios will be set in the American Civil War and should appear sometime late June/early July. It will be a collaboration with user "Hellway". While not a complete graphic rehaul it will have some new graphics so you will not have Axis soldiers roaming around Maryland .
And, please be patient as I do this in my spare time and as a hobby!
Many tanks to user NIckgen for the AMAZING map for Bryanks and to user Sharif for helping me with testing!
Bryanks Front Attacks! :
This is a medium sized scenario simulating an historical, large Soviet offensive in the Voronezh sector in the Summer of '42. This is a forgotten battle, but almost the size of the Ardennes offensive, with 800+ tanks involved! I picked it as both sides get to go on the offensive and the asymmetry of the operational situation. There is now extensive research on the event and I felt it was well suited for the engine, keeping the same scale as the main Stalingrad scenarios. Played human vs human it will be most balanced/historical with the more experienced player taking the Axis side, but it will be fun to see if a better Front commander 'd be able to do better than the historical Red Army Generals!
I believe the AI will also provide be a good challenge as it has been improved considerably in the recent patches. The relatively small scenario size allowed me to give it fairly detailed instructions. It's still a largely scripted AI but give it a try and make sure to check the info and game aids are in the scenario thread (btw with the WEGO update 1.06 even the standard scenarios will play better!)
Soviet Farm: This a small (Corps/Kampfgruppe scale), but challenging scenario designed specifically to try some new possibilites with the engine: new terrain types and the option to call in optional reinforcements (with a VP penalty) as allowed by the new reinforcement triggers (and some design creativity). Sovet Farm has significant replay value and I'd recommend it after trying the official tutorial scenario.
Designer Notes and Future Work
As the WEGO engine and its AI have gone significant improvements/bug fixes from the earlier versions (readiness recovery now works as intended and the AI uses all its resources if programmed accordingly). I feel WEGO is now ready to be taken to new directions. I had previously designed scenarios for other engines (TOAW, V&V) and my background is in numerical simulations, so I got really interested in the possibilities of Brian Kelly's WEGO engine, especially when used in situations were the WEGO approach has clear advantages over the standard IGOYOUGO one (fluid frontlines, relatively low counter density, poor intelligence) and I believe it can be successfully used as is in non WW2 settings and/or different spatial/time scales.
I will use this thread to post semi un-regularly on my future projects and design choices (sometimes slightly different/complementary to those adopted in the main scenarios). I thank in advance the engine designer Brian Kelly for a lot of suggestions/help and even a few changes to the engine (I can be persistent..). I also thanks the scenario designers involved with "WEGO Stalingrad" for encouraging the community to play with the engine and design their own scenarios.
As posted in the Mods/Scenario section, my next scenarios will be set in the American Civil War and should appear sometime late June/early July. It will be a collaboration with user "Hellway". While not a complete graphic rehaul it will have some new graphics so you will not have Axis soldiers roaming around Maryland .
And, please be patient as I do this in my spare time and as a hobby!
Last edited by governato on Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: New WW2 Scearios for WEGO just posted! + Designer notes and plans for future work
I will also post a challenge or two on the Matrix PBEM page if you want to play vs a human
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Re: New WW2 Scenarios for WEGO just posted! + Designer notes and plans for future work
So looking forward to trying the game engine in a different setting.
A Sharif
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Re: New WW2 Scenarios for WEGO just posted! + Designer notes and plans for future work
To anyone interested, I have posted three PBEM challenges if anyone would like to play a, not terribly good, human. I am very new to PBEM play and am astonished how easy it is. If you are sitting on the fence, like I have for years, come give it a try by starting a new game, choosing multiplayer, then accepting one of my challenges based on the scenario, and the side you'd like to play.
A Sharif
Re: New WW2 Scenarios for WEGO just posted! + Designer notes and plans for future work
Just a quick example of the new graphics for the ACW scenarios. This will not be a graphic rehaul from the ground up, but hopefully sufficient to
give a sense of immersion to the scenarios.
give a sense of immersion to the scenarios.
Re: New WW2 Scenarios for WEGO just posted! + Designer notes and plans for future work
The moment the game goes on sale, I'm gonna buy it! Then I'll play a quick small scenario against the AI and then I'll gladly take up your challenges. I didn't even know this game had the PBEM++ system. Outstanding! (PS: I've already read the manual so I am kinda prepared and ready to jump right into multiplayer after one AI scenario, if you are okay with that.)Alan Sharif wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:03 pm To anyone interested, I have posted three PBEM challenges if anyone would like to play a, not terribly good, human. I am very new to PBEM play and am astonished how easy it is. If you are sitting on the fence, like I have for years, come give it a try by starting a new game, choosing multiplayer, then accepting one of my challenges based on the scenario, and the side you'd like to play.
Also, @governato, I can't express how much I am looking forward to your ACW scenarios!
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Re: New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
This is all very exciting news! I look forward to the future of the WEGO engine.
"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero
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Re: New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
Look forward to a battle or two in the not too distant future Sunbather.
A Sharif
Re: New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
currently testing and writing some help files and an AAR so that people will enjoy the ACW scenarios.
They play rather differently from those in the WW2 setting!
They play rather differently from those in the WW2 setting!
WEGO: WW2 and ACW The Comabt Results Table
double post!
Last edited by governato on Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
WEGO: WW2 and ACW The Combat Results Table
The Combat Results Table (CRT) is the heart of the combat system. How doe sit change from game to game and era to era?
To adapt the CRT of WEGO Stalingrad (already different from the one used in WEGO Desert War) to combat in the American Civil War and possibly the Napoleonic War era a few major changes are necessary:
1) losses are doubled to represent the longer turn length (one full day) and the more lethal nature of combat during the ACW (Dupuy's Numbers and Military History, Figs 1-2 to 1-5) , In 19th century combat, single day losses could easily amount to 20% of the participant forces. Readiness loss means pursue was hard, but often decisive if the winning side had kept sufficient reserves.
2) results are more frictional, meaning the winner suffers similar losses to the losing side, even at large Combat Ratios (see reference attached: Weiss: Combat Models and Historical Data: The U.S. Civil War)
3) battles close to force parity are particularly bloody for both sides and with smaller range of outcomes.
4) attacks at low force ratios (say 1:3) provide slightly better outcomes for the attacker (the historical reason is not clear, possibly better coordination of a smaller, more alert force).
FUTURE WORK:
The database of battles in the ACW and Napoleonic era provide a unique (if not perfect) way to compare real battles with those simulated in my ACW scenarios.
I plan to collect the outcome from a number of battles in my scenarios (men per side vs losses) and compare it with the real ones. This might provide the opportunity to improve the ACW CRT further.
To adapt the CRT of WEGO Stalingrad (already different from the one used in WEGO Desert War) to combat in the American Civil War and possibly the Napoleonic War era a few major changes are necessary:
1) losses are doubled to represent the longer turn length (one full day) and the more lethal nature of combat during the ACW (Dupuy's Numbers and Military History, Figs 1-2 to 1-5) , In 19th century combat, single day losses could easily amount to 20% of the participant forces. Readiness loss means pursue was hard, but often decisive if the winning side had kept sufficient reserves.
2) results are more frictional, meaning the winner suffers similar losses to the losing side, even at large Combat Ratios (see reference attached: Weiss: Combat Models and Historical Data: The U.S. Civil War)
3) battles close to force parity are particularly bloody for both sides and with smaller range of outcomes.
4) attacks at low force ratios (say 1:3) provide slightly better outcomes for the attacker (the historical reason is not clear, possibly better coordination of a smaller, more alert force).
FUTURE WORK:
The database of battles in the ACW and Napoleonic era provide a unique (if not perfect) way to compare real battles with those simulated in my ACW scenarios.
I plan to collect the outcome from a number of battles in my scenarios (men per side vs losses) and compare it with the real ones. This might provide the opportunity to improve the ACW CRT further.
- Attachments
-
- Weiss - Combat Models and Historical Data The US Civil War.pdf
- (1.33 MiB) Downloaded 4 times
Re: New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW: The Map and Fog of War
THE MAP and FOG of WAR
As in the official scenarios, the top graphic layer (the visual map or 'VM') of the Corinth and Antietam maps is an artistic representation of the underlying tile map (TM) created by the WEGO editor. Its goal is to provide useful and immersive info to the players. To create these "maps" I used combination of 1) user created tiles, 2) Photoshop to make the map more organic and finally 3) some help from an image2image AI to improve the texture of the map itself. The final map differs a bit from traditional wargame maps in the sense that it is not a 100% one to one representation of the terrain types used in the Tile Map created by the editor (or as the paper map of classic boardgames).
This is a small, but conceptually significant deviation from wargaming tradition, where absolute knowledge of the terrain is always assumed. I felt some sort of "geographic fog of war" was instead necessary, especially for pre WW2 scenarios. During the American Civil War, maps were of very poor quality, rarely available and Generals often had to resort to information from (often unfriendly) locals or unreliable scouts. Fords had to be found and their usefulness depended on the season and recent weather. In general looking at any official map it was hard to decide if a certain area would provide favorable to one side or the other without actually been there. (think of the importance of "Sunken Road" at the battle of Antietam) Even in WW2 scenarios the small hamlets in Russia or central Europe could provide strong defensive positions..(or not) depending on a multiplicity of factors impossible to predict in advance (direction of the assault, brick building vs wood ones, tree cover etc)
In game terms this approach also implies that full information should only be gained when your forces occupy/clicks on an hex. This level of detail is unfortunately not available in "WEGO" (or any other game to my knowledge) and so my introduction of a graphic layer that is close, but not a perfect representation of the underlying Tile map.
In practical terms:
- not all towns marked on the VM are "town hexes" in the tile map, some are "farmland",
- not all ford hexes are marked
- some open hexes show as farmland and viceversa
- not all trails are visible.
- [/i]
Depending on the players style one could
1) use at face value the information from the VM and be ready for small surprises (a hidden ford, a faster trail, farmland instead of open terrain)
2) click on each hex as necessary, as the pop up info will show the correct underlying info from the Tile Map.
As in the official scenarios, the top graphic layer (the visual map or 'VM') of the Corinth and Antietam maps is an artistic representation of the underlying tile map (TM) created by the WEGO editor. Its goal is to provide useful and immersive info to the players. To create these "maps" I used combination of 1) user created tiles, 2) Photoshop to make the map more organic and finally 3) some help from an image2image AI to improve the texture of the map itself. The final map differs a bit from traditional wargame maps in the sense that it is not a 100% one to one representation of the terrain types used in the Tile Map created by the editor (or as the paper map of classic boardgames).
This is a small, but conceptually significant deviation from wargaming tradition, where absolute knowledge of the terrain is always assumed. I felt some sort of "geographic fog of war" was instead necessary, especially for pre WW2 scenarios. During the American Civil War, maps were of very poor quality, rarely available and Generals often had to resort to information from (often unfriendly) locals or unreliable scouts. Fords had to be found and their usefulness depended on the season and recent weather. In general looking at any official map it was hard to decide if a certain area would provide favorable to one side or the other without actually been there. (think of the importance of "Sunken Road" at the battle of Antietam) Even in WW2 scenarios the small hamlets in Russia or central Europe could provide strong defensive positions..(or not) depending on a multiplicity of factors impossible to predict in advance (direction of the assault, brick building vs wood ones, tree cover etc)
In game terms this approach also implies that full information should only be gained when your forces occupy/clicks on an hex. This level of detail is unfortunately not available in "WEGO" (or any other game to my knowledge) and so my introduction of a graphic layer that is close, but not a perfect representation of the underlying Tile map.
In practical terms:
- not all towns marked on the VM are "town hexes" in the tile map, some are "farmland",
- not all ford hexes are marked
- some open hexes show as farmland and viceversa
- not all trails are visible.
- [/i]
Depending on the players style one could
1) use at face value the information from the VM and be ready for small surprises (a hidden ford, a faster trail, farmland instead of open terrain)
2) click on each hex as necessary, as the pop up info will show the correct underlying info from the Tile Map.
Re: New Scenarios for WEGO: WW2 and ACW + Designer notes and plans for future work
UPDATE 8/26/2024
The Corinth scenario and the American Civil War graphics are out in the MODs/scenarios subforum.
Making progress with Antietam.
The Corinth scenario and the American Civil War graphics are out in the MODs/scenarios subforum.
Making progress with Antietam.
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