Mediterannean war

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Since Little Bennie also spoke French, he could easily pass for an Italian Swiss person that also spoke English![;)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu5jS_LqnXk

Just don't ask me what he was saying!

Well, what a wonderful find! The audio is really bad, but from what I gather, Mussolini addresses the fears that Italy could rearm and consider going to war as a solution for her problems. Mussolini points out that he was a soldier in WWI and so he knows what "war" really means. He then adds that as a politician, he became aware of how each country, winners and losers, was still suffering from the wounds of the Great War. These two experiences, put together, convinced him that "war" should never be seen as the solution to anything.

Mussolini also muses about how the scientific progress will, unavoidably, ensure that a Second World War will see even more suffering and destruction than the first one.

For these reasons (I'm still translating) Mussolini ensures that Italy will never initiate a new war. Even more, Italy will always be on the front line in any future disarmament talks.

The propaganda arrives in the last part. Italy, we are told, wants a long peace so that "the fruits of the Fascist regime can be consolidated and grow even more". The (Fascist) Italians, along with other the peoples, will be able to ensure peace and prosperity for all.

I'm not sure about the closure. Something about the fact that, in the modern World, "competition" (like in the exploration of new lands) is still an important part for the equilibrium of human spirit, but that it can be intended in a "sporty" way. I could be wrong, however, the audio is quite unclear.

Well, that was Mussolini on the international scene two years before Hitler took power.

DUH! I just found out that this could simply be the French version of this speech in English. It still lacks the last part, toh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow8SQQm7oVg

I'll leave my efforts untouched. I don't want to cheat [:)]

Grazie. [:)]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Regarding Mussolini, I recently read something about some letters sent by Churchill:
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/130917

True or not, we will never know I think.

Thank you.

Interesting. But then again, consider the time that they were sent and the recent threat from the East.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Regarding Mussolini, I recently read something about some letters sent by Churchill:
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/130917

True or not, we will never know I think.

The death of Mussolini is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of. The Allies had made clear to the leaders of the Italian resistance that they wanted him alive - for obvious reasons. He was, instead, summarily killed.

Why? Maybe the simpler solution is the real one: by then he was so hated that it was an impulse killing. Why to kill his mistress too (and hang her body along with his) if not out of hate?

Or you can consider the fact that the Italian resistance was actually a mosaic of people coming from all kind of backgrounds and with conflicting interests. A percentage of them were ex-Fascisti. To further compound the problem, many jobs required for you to be part of the Fascist party - no matter what your ideology was - so many honest people were "Fascisti" (and then ex-Fascisti) out of necessity, not ideology.

I guess that we will never know the truth.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Regarding Mussolini, I recently read something about some letters sent by Churchill:
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/130917

True or not, we will never know I think.

An arch reactionary bourgeois aka Churchill admiring the most extreme and reactionary petty bourgeois movement aka fascism 🤣

The assassination part, I don't get it. As if Benito was always carrying these letters...

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

The assassination part, I don't get it. As if Benito was always carrying these letters...

Yes, this is strange. But, as always, history is rewritten by the victors.

[fran52]

But Rommel and his AK seem the only stars in this front

For sure but in the what if could be added a better coordination between Italian air force and navy,that was one of the problem.
The Italian could not follow the stupid order of Mussolini to advance out of supply in the first offensive(saving troup),Spain join the Axis force and so on.
In my opinion,till the invasion of Sicily ,could be an interesting theatre.
it should be mentioned that if Hitler had concentrated his forces in this theatre,instead to invade URSS,the axis would have all the oil and the British would be in big trouble without oil and Suez.

[fran52]

The death of Mussolini is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of. The Allies had made clear to the leaders of the Italian resistance that they wanted him alive - for obvious reasons. He was, instead, summarily killed.

I'm from Como.On this lake was captured and killed Mussolini.Even today, stories about these facts circulate.
Perhaps, abroad, it is not known that two partisans who participated in the capture were also victims of the partisans themselves.
Their bodies were disappeared in the lake.
The name of this 2 are Capt.Neri nick name of Luigi Canali and Gianna nick name of Giuseppina Tiussi,two inconvenient partisans for
the communist.

[Bo Rearguard]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


Yes, this is strange. But, as always, history is rewritten by the victors.

History gets successfully rewritten by the losers sometimes as well. The "Lost Cause" ideology of the Confederacy, or the "Stab-in-back myth" of post World War One Germany being the most well known examples.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: fran52

The death of Mussolini is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of. The Allies had made clear to the leaders of the Italian resistance that they wanted him alive - for obvious reasons. He was, instead, summarily killed.

I'm from Como.On this lake was captured and killed Mussolini.Even today, stories about these facts circulate.
Perhaps, abroad, it is not known that two partisans who participated in the capture were also victims of the partisans themselves.
Their bodies were disappeared in the lake.
The name of this 2 are Capt.Neri nick name of Luigi Canali and Gianna nick name of Giuseppina Tiussi,two inconvenient partisans for
the communist.

Indeed, that is why there is so much speculation even today.

[Zovs]

I don’t know what other thoughts are on this one but I am seriously thinking of taking the plunge next week. It’s close. Maybe.

https://johntillersoftware.com/Strategi ... Front.html

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[DeepBlack]

[center][/center]

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

I don’t know what other thoughts are on this one but I am seriously thinking of taking the plunge next week. It’s close. Maybe.

https://johntillersoftware.com/Strategi ... Front.html

Is it land warfare only? I don't see anything regarding the naval aspect of the game.

[fran52]

I don’t know what other thoughts are on this one but I am seriously thinking of taking the plunge next week. It’s close. Maybe.

Yes is very close but,if i'm not wrong,the war on the see is not treated.Tiller's games are interesting but unfortunately lacking in AI. we have games where is too easy to win and other,like WITE,where is impossible playing against AI.

[Fred98]

20 years ago a game named "Uncommon Valor" was released. I thought it was a great game. There was talk of a "Uncommon Valor for the Med" but it did not eventuate. I would be the first to get such a game.

Obviously the start date would be June 1940 as the Italians invaded southern France and the end date would be June 1944 when Rome fell.

There was a lot of naval actions, air actions and ground actions and would make for a great wargame.
.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Is it land warfare only? I don't see anything regarding the naval aspect of the game.

Only land, I suspect. They have some purely naval games but this has to be just land warfare. With a very simplified air [support?] and naval [shore bombardment?] approach. Interesting game indeed.

[Zovs]

Yes that game is only land I believe.

The other game that I do have and that I do want to like like is the Schwerpunkt game WWIIE (World War II Europe). It has naval, air and land components, it has a 102 scenarios and campaigns (not all are complete), its still being worked on (i.e. patches and finishing up the scenarios), it has an AI and FOW, but it's UI is very hard to get used to, the scrolling at different map views (see below) is horrible, the counter art work is very plain and unattractive, nothing it seems is modifiable.

Here is some screen shots (sorry I have a 4k monitor so some may seem big).

This is the scenario/campaign selection screen:


The full North African campaign description:


The Map Europe view:


The High Map level view (part one):


The High Map level view (part two):


The Med level map view:


The Low level map view:



I really, really want to like the game, but the UI, the counters being ugly and the sluggishness of the game puts me off.

[fran52]

The other game that I do have and that I do want to like like is the Schwerpunkt game WWIIE (World War II Europe). It has naval, air and land components,

But for the supply a convoy system is planned?Naval battles make sense if there is protection of convoys, at least in the Mediterranean ,conversely to the Pacific.
Perhaps a game that includes this is World in Flames but infortunately is without AI.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Detailed naval warfare on an individual ship basis, and land units at battalion size.

Sounds good. I would prefer 3 mile per hex regimental scale though. Breakable into battalions if needed with battalion support units. Even at that scale it would be a brain buster of a game.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Detailed naval warfare on an individual ship basis, and land units at battalion size.

Sounds good. I would prefer 3 mile per hex regimental scale though. Breakable into battalions if needed with battalion support units. Even at that scale it would be a brain buster of a game.

warspite1

The TOAW IV scenario for this campaign was at battalion level and this worked very well. I think that is one of the beautiful things about this whole campaign; the units involved were relatively small in number. This allows more detail without being unmanageable - which is important as every single naval vessel needs to be represented.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4413713