The lack of a mid-range Operation Barbarossa game

[jeffnward]

Fellow Grognards,

After playing so many of John Tiller's Panzer Campaigns games lately, I've gotten the hankerin' to play a full-fledged WWII Eastern Front game. In a perfect world, it would be very similar to SPI's War in the East which was one of my all-time favorite board games.

But when I look at the currently available titles, nothing quite seems to fit that bill.

I've enjoyed TOAW IV in the past, but enduring the multi-phased movement system on that scale would be daunting. Decisive Campaigns Operation Barbarossa looks really good, but I'm not in the mood for dealing with the political aspects of that campaign. I recently spoke with Ron Dockal of Schwerpunkt Games in regard to getting The Russo German War to work in Windows 10, (he was very helpful), but I was hoping to play something a bit more contemporary. There's always Gary Grigsby's War in the East, but the vast level of complexity has always scared me away.

So, the question is, am I missing another possibility or is Mr. Grigsby's War in the East not nearly as bad as I think it is? All feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Jeff

[Duck Doc]

Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa can be played with the 'political aspects' off if you desire and with or without it is the single best operational treatment of Barbarossa I have played and I played it a ton. After all my experience the play-acting aspect of the game became very annoying and largely detracted from the experience although I played with all on. Would love to see DC: B resurrected without all the play-acting and decision-making cleaned up but this is not going to happen.

GG WitE is very approachable even for the non-grognard, especially the 2nd iteration in the series. Much has been automated. I am way too old to devote the time and energy necessary to this kind of treatment but I did enjoy WitE and WitW a bunch when I was young and vigorous.

My strong recommendation is to get DC: B and hold your nose and pick the experience. Even with amateurish play-acting, it is hands-down the best operational treatment of Barbarossa available on the computer and is massively addicting with a tough AI opponent.

[jeffnward]

Duck,

That's exactly the reply I was hoping for, and I'll give DCB a shot with the politics off. Thank you so much!

Jeff

[Duck Doc]

You are quite welcome. Happy to help,

[Rosseau]

My only issue with the game is that it ends in 1941. The link below goes into 1942, but I have not tried it. Good luck.

https://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=286

[warspite1]

I would agree DC:B is worth a go - I had a lot of fun with that when it first came out. Personally I liked the political aspect - I thought it was something a bit different, but understand that is not for everyone. Hope you enjoy it

[sokulsky]

There is a mid-weight full eastern front game which is very good.

It is Strategic Command Classic: Global Conflict that includes Strategic Command - Assault on Communism release with its 1941 - 1945 campaign which is quite good against AI (if played as Third Reich) and very good if played against human player (via PBEM).

[Lobster]

DCB is hardly a good depiction of the Eastern Front. I'm sorry I bought it.

[Duck Doc]

DCB is hardly a good depiction of the Eastern Front. I'm sorry I bought it.

Why do you think so? Not picking a fight at all but just curious,

[Curtis Lemay]

I know my Soviet Union 1941 scenario probably isn't what he asked for, but it's such a unique take on the topic I thought it's worth injecting:

https://crossrl1.wixsite.com/my-toaw-si ... union-1941

[*Lava*]

Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa is a great game, even with the political decision making. It's quite simple, screw the Nazi's, you are in command of the war and everything just goes swell.

I have a video which is uploading to YouTube ATM. It is a whooping hour and a half long. It is essentially a data dump on all the important aspects of the game that I have learned after playing it for 500 hours. Hopefully I'll publish tomorrow.

You watch that, and you will understand all the important aspects of what is going on under the hood of this game (supply, combat, combat postures and when to change, decisions and their effects, and relations with your superiors and subordinates), and you will be set to have a super experience playing the game.

I guarantee it.

[Duck Doc]

I have a video which is uploading to YouTube ATM. It is a whooping hour and a half long. It is essentially a data dump on all the important aspects of the game that I have learned after playing it for 500 hours. Hopefully I'll publish tomorrow.

I guarantee it.

You are too modest. I started watching the one linked in the DC: B discussion thread and it is good stuff. I plan to watch the whole thing and learn. Five hundred hours is very impressive (I have probably half that). You showcase the game well. Thanks,

[jeffnward]

Rosseau,

Thank you for the head's up on the 1942 scenario. I'll certainly have to give it a shot!

Jeff

[jeffnward]

Lava,

Thank you for the head's up on your Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa Youtube video. I've already started watching it.

Jeff

[jeffnward]

Curtis,

I appreciate the head's up on your TOAW IV Barbarossa scenario. I'll have to give it a shot!

Jeff

[jeffnward]

Sokulsky,

I have to laugh because in my 15 plus pages of the Matrix games I own under the "My Page" tab, Strategic Command Classic: Global Conflict is not one of them. Thus, I will wait for the appropriate sale and give that Assault on Communism scenario a shot.

Thank you for alerting me to its existence.

Jeff

[*Lava*]

Lava,

Thank you for the head's up on your Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa Youtube video. I've already started watching it.

Jeff

I think that the video covers pretty much everything you need to know to jump start a campaign. Of course, if I had been more professional and wrote down exactly what I wanted to say, I probably could have done it in 20 minutes.

I thought I had finished with the game, but decided to take a shot on playing the Soviets. Once again, there is pretty much nothing on the net which explains how to play them, so... why not?

[Ridcully70]

Decisive Campaigns Case Blue also by VR Designs is also worth looking into. Less politically driven that DC Barbarossa. Advanced Tactics Gold also has some ready made scenarios of the Eastern Front, and they are even more streamlined and wargame like.

I don't believe Gary Grigsby's War In The Whatever games are as complicated as some people think. Yes, the manuals are huge, but in reality they are much bigger than they really need to be. Paragraphs are often repeated almost word for word throughout the manual so there's lots of unnecessary wordage. The manuals could be trimmed down to less than half their length and you would still lose no vital information. i could recommend them as long as you don't get intimated by the manual.

Are any of these games good representations of the Eastern Front? I don't know, I didn't fight in the Eastern Front.

[Kuokkanen]

Are any of these games good representations of the Eastern Front? I don't know, I didn't fight in the Eastern Front.

Keep in mind that on the Western Front allies claimed Tiger and 88 for Panzerkampfwagen IV and 75. And this one German armoured force backed off after encountering a Hellcat platoon (they thought there's entire tank destroyer battalion or whatever). Likely same things happened on the Eastern Front. So even those who fought there may not offer a good representation of it.

[EwaldvonKleist]

You can turn off most politics in DC:B. Give it a try, it is good and less complex than WitE1/2.