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RE: When? - 2/16/2012 7:43:13 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7866
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2611
RE: When? - 2/16/2012 8:00:41 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.

Wow you mad at me Paul, sorry did not know you played all the time, maybe because I did not say you play the Commonwealth and mistakenly used England Compatible opponets huh, you crazy I want to win everytime not lose But the truth is in the pudding and we will never know until Matrix comes out with the game and if PBEM and net play will really work well, I for one hope it does for all the non AI'ers

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 2/16/2012 8:04:51 PM >

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2612
RE: When? - 2/16/2012 8:13:47 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7866
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
Hmmm, the best bet to win all the time will be if there's an AI, so you may well be on the right path after all.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 2613
RE: When? - 2/16/2012 10:34:51 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1420
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.


I don't understand, If people are already able to play others online, why are they waiting for this game? What will be different? (hopefully an AI)

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 2/16/2012 10:35:00 PM >

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2614
RE: When? - 2/16/2012 10:59:49 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Hmmm, the best bet to win all the time will be if there's an AI, so you may well be on the right path after all.




Bo

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2615
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 9:47:15 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7866
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.


I don't understand, If people are already able to play others online, why are they waiting for this game? What will be different? (hopefully an AI)

You have to read more of the posts here. Many have commented that the difference is that MWiF will enforce all the rules without us having to look up stuff all the time. The rules for WiFFE are something like 128 pages. It will prevent errors like moving and attacking with units that are out of supply. Or moving them the wrong distance due to weather effects. Or moving ships too far because you overlook that it has a movement of 6 but is one of the rare CAs with a range of 4. It will calculate all the oil expenditure - which is considered by most players to be an almost unacceptable bookeeping overhead. It will ensure someone doesn't do their production wrong (for either players advantage). etc. etc.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 2616
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 10:23:39 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1965
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing the Commonwealth, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Rojo says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


It could happen exactly like you say, but this happens to me too in the board game, so no enworsement.

As for Europe, I think there are big differences between countries, but in Spain you have at least 30 days most commonly. But although August is the most usual, it's not the only one, I think like 50% of the people goes on holidays in August, but like 30% in July, 10% in september and the rest along the other months. Also, some only take 20 in summer and reserve 10 for Christmas time. So it is (in fact) much worse than what you imagine, there may be several months with no action. Unless the one leaving is playing an extremely slow moment in the game, like Russia'40 (usually) and can leave some other play for him with some general instructions.

On the other side, Netplay would allow playing even at holidays if we want (like in Christmas if we are bored at our family's, Why not playing some hours in the afternoons?).

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 2/17/2012 10:24:51 AM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 2617
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 10:29:16 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1965
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.


I don't understand, If people are already able to play others online, why are they waiting for this game? What will be different? (hopefully an AI)

You have to read more of the posts here. Many have commented that the difference is that MWiF will enforce all the rules without us having to look up stuff all the time. The rules for WiFFE are something like 128 pages. It will prevent errors like moving and attacking with units that are out of supply. Or moving them the wrong distance due to weather effects. Or moving ships too far because you overlook that it has a movement of 6 but is one of the rare CAs with a range of 4. It will calculate all the oil expenditure - which is considered by most players to be an almost unacceptable bookeeping overhead. It will ensure someone doesn't do their production wrong (for either players advantage). etc. etc.


Yep.

And Bo, I carry my laptop everywhere on holidays too, plus now many people (including me) have a mobile internet connection (in muy case only within Spain unfortunately) . So wifi (usually slow and bad quality) is not necessary anymore.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2618
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 1:36:51 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1420
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You have to read more of the posts here. Many have commented that the difference is that MWiF will enforce all the rules without us having to look up stuff all the time. The rules for WiFFE are something like 128 pages. It will prevent errors like moving and attacking with units that are out of supply. Or moving them the wrong distance due to weather effects. Or moving ships too far because you overlook that it has a movement of 6 but is one of the rare CAs with a range of 4. It will calculate all the oil expenditure - which is considered by most players to be an almost unacceptable bookeeping overhead. It will ensure someone doesn't do their production wrong (for either players advantage). etc. etc.

I see, thanks.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2619
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 1:38:33 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1420
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
oops double post

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 2/17/2012 1:45:29 PM >

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 2620
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 1:40:23 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1420
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
oops triple post

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 2/17/2012 1:46:20 PM >

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2621
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 3:45:44 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21632
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ah Jose, bull****, the only bull**** I know is in the corridas of Spain or on the streets of Pamplona our bulls are out west thank god Jose your points are well taken and bolster my feelings about an AI good or not. Now envision this [just being silly] we are playing each other one on one, no problem with PBEM, you can wait a day or a month for an answer because you might be playing 10 different people at once, of course trying to bring to mind different tactics for different folks in each game might be all right for you college guys but I would have trouble with one games tactics and what I was trying to accomplish in the game Now we go a step farther and we would like to go back to the old way, you know six players sitting around a cyber table. Lets see we have Paulderynck playing England, Froonp Germany, Composser99 USA, Warspite China, Red Prince Italy [no reason] and to tick off Jose he is France It is the end of July and Mrs Ignascio says lets go Jose its August and we are going on vacation and we know all Euopeans take off the month of August What happens now if France has not fallen yet, do you sit around a month waiting for Jose to come back or Jose is in the middle of a hot game against Paulderynck and Pauly says what do you mean your going away for a month. In Net play the above scenario would be a disaster. So while Jose is away we could all play the AI even if it is bull*** just to keep in practice. Please don't get mad at me it is all tongue in cheek but it could happen. I am truly going to need all your help, when this game is released I promise exemplary behavior no matter what's in the game or not in the game [errrr maybe]

Bo


I'm always in Vegas for two weeks in August anyway. Given the level of play I'd expect from the AI, I'm happy to wait for the humans to return.

But you make a good point, logistics issues increase exponentially as you add players. In a prior post, Bo, you asked how many play regularly online now. I play once a week using Vassal in netplay mode. 2-player with a two hour time difference. It works Ok for my friend down east but only because he doesn't mind starting and playing late. We played until 2 AM my time on one occasion but usually we are done by 2 AM his time.

Vassal has the ability to switch back and forth between netplay and PBEM which would be a better feature to have in MWiF than an AI IMO.

I recommend putting your efforts into finding compatible opponents rather than lobbying for an AI. They'll give you a far better game.


I don't understand, If people are already able to play others online, why are they waiting for this game? What will be different? (hopefully an AI)

You have to read more of the posts here. Many have commented that the difference is that MWiF will enforce all the rules without us having to look up stuff all the time. The rules for WiFFE are something like 128 pages. It will prevent errors like moving and attacking with units that are out of supply. Or moving them the wrong distance due to weather effects. Or moving ships too far because you overlook that it has a movement of 6 but is one of the rare CAs with a range of 4. It will calculate all the oil expenditure - which is considered by most players to be an almost unacceptable bookeeping overhead. It will ensure someone doesn't do their production wrong (for either players advantage). etc. etc.


Yep.

And Bo, I carry my laptop everywhere on holidays too, plus now many people (including me) have a mobile internet connection (in muy case only within Spain unfortunately) . So wifi (usually slow and bad quality) is not necessary anymore.

You will not need a fast internet connection to play MWIF over the internet. 110 baud might even work.

I've been monitoring the data exchange closely for NetPlay and there were only 218 data transmissions for creating the game prior to setting up the USSR in Barbarossa. There will be about the same number to actually set up the USSR's units. Each of these transmissions in less than 100 characters (bytes) long.

The full game creation process takes 8600+ 'events', but since almost all of those do not involve random numbers, each computer can perform those actions independently. For example, what major power controls each hex and in which pool (force pool, conquered pool, reserved pool, etc.) does each unit start the game can be determined by each computer without waiting for a random number from the 'master' computer.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 2/17/2012 3:47:14 PM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 2622
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 4:10:13 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
Ok Pauly you play net play on vassal, and I assume you are playing real time. My question would be why are you concerned about MWIF if you are already playing CWIF on vassel Do you feel Matix's version will be better? Is it rules or eye candy like pretty counters and such or you will be able to play posters here who do not want to play on Vassel. Please not being smart and nothing to do with the AI. I have never played anything net play. What do you see, I assume the map is in front of you on your computer, ok you make all your moves and when your finished do you type to your opponet I'm done? Are you a particular country with several players or are you allied or axis with one player. Example [for my benefit] in the cap phase do you just move your fighter over the unit you want to protect and your opponet sees this and reacts or do you have to type to your opponet what your intentions are besides what he sees you doing. If it sounds like a stupid question sorry I'm stupid about this game and net play. Is there a way to watch a game in progress somewhere? If you don't want to answer here because of length e-mail me, please.

Bo

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2623
RE: When? - 2/17/2012 7:06:00 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7866
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Ok Pauly you play net play on vassal, and I assume you are playing real time. My question would be why are you concerned about MWIF if you are already playing CWIF on vassel Do you feel Matix's version will be better? Is it rules or eye candy like pretty counters and such or you will be able to play posters here who do not want to play on Vassel. Please not being smart and nothing to do with the AI. I have never played anything net play. What do you see, I assume the map is in front of you on your computer, ok you make all your moves and when your finished do you type to your opponet I'm done? Are you a particular country with several players or are you allied or axis with one player. Example [for my benefit] in the cap phase do you just move your fighter over the unit you want to protect and your opponet sees this and reacts or do you have to type to your opponet what your intentions are besides what he sees you doing. If it sounds like a stupid question sorry I'm stupid about this game and net play. Is there a way to watch a game in progress somewhere? If you don't want to answer here because of length e-mail me, please.

Bo

See a couple posts back in my reply to vonRocko for many of the reasons why I'd prefer MWiF. It's a complicated game and we're all human so we all can make mistakes. It's more than that though. I've been following this project since 2008, became a beta tester in 2009 and I want to see the product be successful. I'm sorry for my views on the AI, but I just cannot believe an even barely competent AI can be made for a game of this complexity. Just one example (of many): a competent CW or US player can invade any (invadeable) hex in the world in one turn, with a bit of pre-planning (barring sea zones where restricted naval movement applies).

As for the Netplay experience, both Vassal has, and MWiF will have, a messaging capability - sort of like texting back and forth while you play. But IMO almost no one uses, or will use it. People who Netplay use Skype (or Face Time, etc.) to set up an audio link. You can add-on others and make a big conference call if you need to. Skype can do video calls too, but that's pointless when you are playing a game. So you connect up on Vassal (MWiF) and connect up on Skype and your den with your computer in it becomes a virtual wargame room with your fellow players in it. Things like CAP and intercepting naval moves, etc. are done identical to the way they are done over the board in a face-to-face game. All the social aspects of gaming with friends are replicated and the host doesn't even need to supply all the beer!

If you download and install Vassal and a WiF module for it, then yes indeed, it is possible to observe a game in progress.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 2624
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 8:36:57 AM   
toki01

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 2625
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 9:37:17 AM   
Orm


Posts: 18064
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us.

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2626
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 12:25:06 PM   
Jimm


Posts: 608
Joined: 7/27/2006
From: York, UK
Status: offline
Hi Toki01

I'm hoping that the netplay is not going to be too technical to negotiate. As non-techie myself the user-friendliness of the netplay interface is something I will be very conscious of as we test this part of the game.

I understand the system will work in conjunction with a forum so I'm sure there'll be a large bunch of friendly potential players out there to match up with, and plenty of opportunity to fine tune playing groups to experience/ability levels, playing time commitments, and option preferences. In my experience here- the odd innevitable troll aside- this community is extremely friendly and welcoming so I'm sure you'll find a good mix of people pretty quickly.

I'm given to understand that the internet requirements of the netplay game should be fairly undemanding, so it should be a relatively easy to get on and get playing with a fairly modest internet connection.

Hope that helps.



(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2627
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 4:55:32 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum


Welcome to the forums hope to read more of your comments, the answer to your question will have to come from much more experienced players than me

Bo

(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2628
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 5:03:50 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us.

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

Hi Orm, ah Sweden, if I would want to live elsewhere than the USA I think that Sweden and Switzerland would be two of my favorites, why, cannot say as I will take the fifth on that one [not whiskey] You say you play yourself with Mwif, I assume you mean the Wif board game. Not a dig, I would really like to know how you do that as I have CWIF and outside of learning movement and a few things it is difficult at best to play yourself.

Bo

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2629
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 5:53:34 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21632
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum


Welcome to the forum.

But really, Great Ones? Obsessive-compulsive behavior is probably more accurate in my case.

---

I have been making good progress on NetPlay recently. Yesterday I was able to get both sides set up in Barbarossa. As the Russian player places his units on the map, the German player's computer instantly shows the placement of the units. The same is true when the two sides are reversed.

I can't fully describe the rush I got when that worked correctly. There are well over 10,000 lines of code just to create a new game and another 10,000 to send and receive the data for player decisions/actions. It was back in 2007 when I designed how that was to work and it took me many long months to write all the code for accomplishing it.

I ran through the entire player interface on the second computer and everything worked correctly. Because there are so many entries into the Game Record Log just to create a game, I have both computers perform that task independently. It was really nice to see that both machines made exactly 8482 GRL entries to reach the point where the USSR began randomly selecting units for the setup tray.

There is still a lot to test and inevitably debug, but that should be very straightforward to do.

---

As for running NetPlay, the only tricky bit is to determine a port number to use for the game. In almost all cases the default number should work. If you just own one computer, that should be it as far as the technical side of things goes. If, and only if, you have a home (or business) local area network (LAN), then there is the additional task of convincing your local router/server to permit incoming MWIF transmissions to use the port number.

Assuming you have a good port number, finding an opponent shouldn't be that difficult. Matrix/Slitherine have a system they have been using for finding PBEM opponents for many other games. MWIF is using a slight variation of that system for enabling MWIF players to find NetPlay opponents. Of course you need to agree on a day and time for when to play.

So, let's further assume that you have a worthy opponent and a scheduled game session.

One player starts a new MWIF game choosing the Internet mode of play, the same way he starts a new game for any other mode of play (e.g., solitaire). He has to type in the names of both players precisely, but that's about it. The program automatically branches to logging the first player into the NetPlay Private MWIF Forum. As soon as a the second player logs into that Forum, the program prompts the first player to click on the Start Game button and the program creates the new game (e.g., loads in the map and unit data for the given scenario and optional rules). If the first player sets up units first, then the Setup Tray appears and he starts placing units on the map.

The second player simply starts by logging into the Forum (there is a button for doing so on the opening screen). Once the first player has created the new game and logged into the Forum, the second player is prompted to click on the Start Game button, and his computer goes through the same process as the first player's computer.

Every MWIF game you play over the internet would start the same way.

Pretty simple [and I am working on eliminating the need for players to click on the Start Game button.]





_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2630
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 6:04:54 PM   
Orm


Posts: 18064
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo



quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Welcome to the forum toki01.

Great to have you among us.

I belive that there are many who have not played a wif game in a very long time who will play MWIF. I think there are many who have not even played one game but are eager to give MWIF a try. While I understand that for many playing against the AI will be the main type of play I do think that giving netplay a try will be a positive experience.

Most of my MWIF experience have been playing against myself. And I suspect that I will play against the AI most of the time. But what I look forward to most is netplay.

Hi Orm, ah Sweden, if I would want to live elsewhere than the USA I think that Sweden and Switzerland would be two of my favorites, why, cannot say as I will take the fifth on that one [not whiskey] You say you play yourself with Mwif, I assume you mean the Wif board game. Not a dig, I would really like to know how you do that as I have CWIF and outside of learning movement and a few things it is difficult at best to play yourself.

Bo

I actually meant my combined experience with both WIF and MWIF.

When playing solitaire games it helps to have some experience on how other people play WIF. But surprises are few and far between.


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 2631
RE: When? - 2/20/2012 6:20:34 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8319
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toki01

Forgive my intrusion Great Ones.

I feel like a bug amongst the Gods.

I played my first game more than 20 years ago, maps taped together over my bed room floor. Two wives, and two decades later (hells... I really miss those decades), I have only played.... one game. You beat me by two Kermitt.

Without boring you with a biography, I too, have followed this site for a very long time.

I'd just like to say two things, and ask one other.

a/ I was totally skyed to note the approx June date for release. After so much work, and such 'Job like patience', I pay homage to those who have brought this work to within sight of completion.

b/ I recognise that many have waited even longer than I. So bring out the game ASAP for their sakes. But me... I need the AI. As a born again virgin, I cant wait for my next 'first' experience with WIF, but with no real history of WIF, no computer knowledge of all this PBEMNetplayWiFFE stuff, and no established network of other gamers, I can only see myself playing against AI. So bring out the 'play real people online' version as quick as you can, coz I can understand, and agree with the points made by Paulderynck... its a real bugga.... but don’t be too long in bringing out the AI version. Please.

c/ (question time) What is the best way for a semi-computer literate, un-networked person to get involved in either playing with himself (yes yes... chuckle away), or with others?

Cheers,

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum


Great Ones?
I'm large, that's true. But Great? No way. I'm just one along billions of people...
A bug among the Gods? Help, I don't want to end up being a halfgod like they have in the old Greek stories.
Ille mi par esse deo videtur...

Only one answer possible: Welcome Great One... Signed: a bug among the Gods...

However I like your last line a lot...

"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum". Here's one in return:

Isto pensitaris?




< Message edited by Centuur -- 2/20/2012 6:22:30 PM >


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2632
RE: When? - 2/21/2012 8:04:44 PM   
petracelli

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 10/28/2003
From: Herts UK
Status: offline
Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2633
RE: When? - 2/21/2012 8:29:58 PM   
Orm


Posts: 18064
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I have been running MWIF in Vista. I had some small issues but when I run it in XP compatibility mode I had no trouble at all. So no need to upgrade.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to petracelli)
Post #: 2634
RE: When? - 2/21/2012 9:47:22 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21632
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I have been running MWIF in Vista. I had some small issues but when I run it in XP compatibility mode I had no trouble at all. So no need to upgrade.

I agree. I have been using Win 7 and Vista computers to test NetPlay. I've had no trouble with Vista running MWIF in XP compatibility mode.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 2/21/2012 9:48:11 PM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2635
RE: When? - 2/21/2012 10:41:27 PM   
Jimm


Posts: 608
Joined: 7/27/2006
From: York, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

Am looking forward to seeing the results of your labour though stills bit concerned as a long time widget to the effect on game balance in china with bigger hexs.

Leaving that aside are you able to give us an idea as to min specs required to run mwif and an optimum, and assume it will run in vista or do I need to upgrade to 7?

Cheers

Phil

I've been playtesting in Vista with no issues- I've never had to worry about setting any XP compatibility mode but it all seems to work fine. It will work fine on my netbook with cutdown Win7 although its a little slow; the main issue however with it is the small screen size!

(in reply to petracelli)
Post #: 2636
RE: When? - 2/22/2012 9:37:02 PM   
trooper76

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline
toki01,
Like you I had played 1 game in 20 years until 2 years ago I discovered PBEM. (Personally I use cyberboard but Vassal is also good). Since then I've been involved in a dozen games (even finished 1!), met a lot of cool people and become a much better WiF player (though I still make plenty of mistakes......garrison Copenhagen #!@$%%!!!!).s

I suggest joining the wifdiscussion group on yahoo groups or asking on the general forum here. I believe you will find several people who are willing to start a game, or re-introduce you to the game via PBEM.

Don't be put off by PBEM. At first it can seem a little challenging (just like anything new) but after getting over the initial learning curve it's a remarkably simple system. Can be played at your own pace, and well sure if you make rules mistakes other experienced players should catch them and/or it'll make a funny story about 3 turns down the road. (Part of the fun..:))

Definitely join the wifdiscussion group on yahoo and ask for assistance!

(in reply to toki01)
Post #: 2637
RE: When? - 2/23/2012 6:41:01 PM   
petracelli

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 10/28/2003
From: Herts UK
Status: offline
Thanks Gents for that and have been enjoying playing by vassal for sometime which really enjoy.

Steve any chance you can let us have an idea of min spec and optimum to run mwif.

Cheers

Phil

(in reply to trooper76)
Post #: 2638
RE: When? - 2/23/2012 8:06:35 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21632
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Thanks Gents for that and have been enjoying playing by vassal for sometime which really enjoy.

Steve any chance you can let us have an idea of min spec and optimum to run mwif.

Cheers

Phil


From the Players Manual:

1.1 System Requirements

Operating System: Windows XP, Vista (using XP compatibility mode), or Win 7
CPU: Minimum = 1 GHz; Recommended = 2 GHz
RAM: Minimum = 1 GB; Recommended = 2 GB
Video/Graphics: Minimum = 128 MB graphics memory; Recommend = 512 MB
Sound card / speakers: Optional
Hard disk space: Minimum = 4 GB; Recommended = 12 GB
CD-Rom: Not required (program can be downloaded).
DirectX version: Direct X not used
Peripheral hardware: Mouse and Keyboard
Other: Internet connection for program updates.


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to petracelli)
Post #: 2639
RE: When? - 2/24/2012 8:04:17 PM   
Jeff Gilbert

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
Hi All,

Just doing my semi-annual check in and glad to see progress is still moving forward.
I always have that hesitant fear that the project gets dropped.
So glad this is not the case.

Well, best to all and, if I read correctly, credit card will be standing by for mid-year.

Jeff

_____________________________

Jeff Gilbert
US Army [Ret]
Palm Harbor, Florida, USA

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 2640
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