Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

B24's oh my

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> B24's oh my Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 6:55:13 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
is it just me or are the poeple seeing non us groups upgrading .. like a recent Canadian group, to b24's a a huge and potentially devastating early war, 43, that is, power change to the Allied forces? Iknow I will be seeing better Jap planes.. but I will be really hitting the mass air assualt formation rutines this game with p38's as escorts...
OR am I overreacting and this is not as unballancing as I think?
Post #: 1
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 7:01:31 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10699
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline

Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 2
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 7:47:11 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

I overreacting and this is not as unballancing as I think


The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 3
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 7:52:47 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

_____________________________


(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 4
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 8:06:40 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady


Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.


Ahhh they've been saying the Allies get too have as fun of the Japanese for months ...

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 5
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 8:11:05 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10699
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline


"The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go"

Ahh, well sorta, Before Only one Unit (I beleave) could operate B-24's Early, well Before late 42 I think, now it would seam several can, unless I am missing someting.

..........

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

Ya, unless it is a Heaver bomload option, again showing one of those little Biased details.

While I can sorta see why alowing the Japanese to pick their upgrade path is a good Idea, after all Japanese production is represented in the game and the Ecenomy abstracted, and the 1.4 upgrade paths were so Bad, that is so unhistoric anyway, this kinda made since, I am not shure Why the Allies nead this realy.



_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 6
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 8:30:54 PM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 609
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline
I've got a simple solution. We can have a setting that removes all those pesky rules like Japan not getting B-29's, not getting the same number of carriers and not getting the same quality planes. We can have an arcade mode so both side are balanced perfectly! that way the Japanese have a 50% chance to win, they can even nuke the united states with the nukes they get when the U.S. gets theirs. Heck we might even be able to get rid of that old turn based mode for real time. That way both sides of this debate should be happy. Those of us who look for historical accuracy can play in historical mode and those who want play balance can play in arcade mode.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 7
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 8:32:57 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

I've got a simple solution. We can have a setting that removes all those pesky rules like Japan not getting B-29's, not getting the same number of carriers and not getting the same quality planes. We can have an arcade mode so both side are balanced perfectly! that way the Japanese have a 50% chance to win, they can even nuke the united states with the nukes they get when the U.S. gets theirs. Heck we might even be able to get rid of that old turn based mode for real time. That way both sides of this debate should be happy. Those of us who look for historical accuracy can play in historical mode and those who want play balance can play in arcade mode.


They have a game out there like that already, it's called Risk.

(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 8
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 9:28:07 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4538
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady


Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.

So you thought the optional upgrade paths were for Japanese player only?...what about all the hubbub about all of the game tweaks being pro allies?...

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 9
RE: B24's oh my - 5/1/2005 9:41:32 PM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady



"The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go"

Ahh, well sorta, Before Only one Unit (I beleave) could operate B-24's Early, well Before late 42 I think, now it would seam several can, unless I am missing someting.


It does mean that you can distribute them to other squadrons earlier assuming the numbers are in the pool. If the numbers aren't there then you can't. There is no increase in the amount of B-24 entering the game. For example, B-17D Sqd A would upgrade to B-17E. Now, if there are sufficient B-24 in the pool Sqd A could re-equipt with the B-24 rather than the B-17E. What happens to the B-24 squadron that was scheduled to arrive later and no B-24 in the pool? Now that squadron, IIRC, arrives with only a few B-24 and sits until the pool fills or you could equipt it with the older B-17D now that that pool has increased due to the earlier trade. You have not really gained more B-24.

< Message edited by Herrbear -- 5/1/2005 9:42:12 PM >

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 10
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 12:06:57 AM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline
Balderdash! Everbody knows that the pink blocks in RISK! are inferior to all the others.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 11
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 2:48:56 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10699
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline


"You have not really gained more B-24"

Yes I understand that, but becuse you will be alowed to upgrade earler, and outside the predesignated pathway you will in efect have scades more in service than you would of pre 1.5, for the same time frame, instead of these planes sittting in the pool they will out bombing.

Honestly I just asumed that the Japanese were the only side to be alowed to manapulate their upgrade path, so i did not pay a lot of atention to the posts on it, I could not for the life of me see why they would alow the Allies to do so, after all their production is not realy player controled, and they have such huge advanatges it would seam a non isue for them, alowing them to do so in efect, to a point, negates any ballancing efect the Japanese may of gained from being able to designate which units receaved which plane type.



_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to doktorblood)
Post #: 12
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 2:59:31 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
Frag's
quote:

The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go.

Frag, I think you missed this one intirely.. if I have three 24 units.. they will "host" their limit of planes regardless of the numbers produced.. as in my soon to end pbem game where I have thousands of planes unused in the pools...

So now, INSTEAD of that number of air units, I now will probably double the usable air units to 24's.. so in effect have twice the number of plays FLYING, after all who really cares about the beasts parked in the States??? I shocked that so many planes will be available, and then on to 29's, makes the air war pilot repleneshment issues criticle, as the side with the best fighter jocks cleans up.. and for japan is they lose this lead they lose PERIOD!

< Message edited by freeboy -- 5/2/2005 3:00:15 AM >

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 13
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 4:53:35 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
the thing is, this game should not be balanced in the way Risk is. in WW2, there is nothing,...nothing that Japan could have done to acually win that war on the battlefield. there is a reason why Japan lost...it is not that Japan had a very bad plan (militarily), it is that they were out produced and out designed and out intelligenced and populated and out everything'd.

the reason they lasted as long as they did is a tribute to the soldiers dedication to their country. (not that the allies didn't have that, but they were winning)

i have brought this up in the past and some people got upset. i do not mean to upset anyone but i thing that a good comparison is the American Civil War. in the beginning the south won alot of victorys due alot to the determination of the soldiers and commanders. but they could not keep up with a enemy that ended up being equally determined and had the industrial might of the north behind them.

after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats, especially if the wiffal bats are upgraded to machine guns


_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 14
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 6:44:57 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats


I dunno. Set up a match. Can I watch?

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 15
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:10:14 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I geuss we wil lsimply have to watch the punch counter punch.. Z tells me he has a new strategy?? We will see, I just think all those heavies are going to be if not wasted by over ambitious plans awefully difficult to slow down

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:15:42 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats


I dunno. Set up a match. Can I watch?


i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"

_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 17
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:20:13 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


lmao
in a pool on inflatable toys

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 18
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:22:12 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 19
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:22:21 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22643
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

quote:

i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


lmao
in a pool on inflatable toys


Inflatable pink sheep.

Mr. Frag will host the show.

_____________________________


(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 20
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:26:24 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I would pay good money, is there any other kind?, too seee the Frag and pony.. er I mean sheep show, combined with swords and wiffle ball bats...

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 21
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:28:24 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min

_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 22
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:35:02 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22643
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min


I hesistate to ask where she hit you...

_____________________________


(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 23
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 7:38:47 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline


_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 24
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 8:18:17 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."


Nah, the few would be the ones with swords.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 25
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 8:19:21 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min


I hesistate to ask where she hit you...


I'm guessing somewhere below the mouth.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 26
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 8:19:53 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
I actually sort of like the upgrading for the Allies. War in the Pacific was never meant to be balanced, it was meant to be psuedo accurate.

The main reason I like it is because historically, several units in the PTO were outfitted with one plane, but due to shortages had to go to another type of plane. Don't remember the squadron, but in 1943 there was a unit of P-38Gs. However, because there was a shortage of P-38s, and an overabundance of P-47s, the unit converted out of necessity. Pre 1.5, that wouldn't be represented. However, post 1.5 it is possible. Yes, the Allied production is fixed. But if you have a shortage of one plane, or an abundance of another, why should we not be able to switch?

In pre 1.5 WiTP, by 1945 the Allies would have several groups stuck at just P-40s. At that late in the game, why can't the player decide to re-equip them with longer range planes? Its not biased, its a new dimension to the game. Granted, I do think there should be some limits to it, but otherwise its ok by me.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 27
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 8:39:40 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8979
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

actually sort of like the upgrading for the Allies. War in the Pacific was never meant to be balanced, it was meant to be psuedo accurate.

The main reason I like it is because historically, several units in the PTO were outfitted with one plane, but due to shortages had to go to another type of plane. Don't remember the squadron, but in 1943 there was a unit of P-38Gs. However, because there was a shortage of P-38s, and an overabundance of P-47s, the unit converted out of necessity. Pre 1.5, that wouldn't be represented. However, post 1.5 it is possible. Yes, the Allied production is fixed. But if you have a shortage of one plane, or an abundance of another, why should we not be able to switch?


I aggree in part, I think player should be able to choose what parts to play historically or not... My biggest issue is that this will unballance an allready far from balance pbem game system .. do to to rapid advance.. supplies etc



< Message edited by freeboy -- 5/2/2005 8:41:09 AM >

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 28
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 10:08:48 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10699
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline


"do to to rapid advance.. supplies etc "

I agree compleatly, espichaly with the later part, I have some TF just sitting ready laden with suplys, since I have so much at most bases I am more in fear of loss from over suply, than from enemy action, that is in my Allied game's.

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 29
RE: B24's oh my - 5/2/2005 10:57:32 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."


Nah, the few would be the ones with swords.


That's what I'm saying, Charles, the few are whacking the wifflers.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> B24's oh my Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.174