Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: WAW date sytem?????

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War >> RE: WAW date sytem????? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/25/2005 9:32:50 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: QBeam
Actually, no--when I read "Winter '41," in the context of WWII, anyway, I actually think to myself "that means roughly Dec. 1940 through February 1941). Because in the context of the war, what's really at issue is this weather--not the calendar, which is calibrated to the length of days. (As I said in my last post, there's a phase difference between the day-length calendar and the weather calendar.) In Russia, Spring begins with the Rasputitsa, and Winter begins when the snow stops the panzers, regardless of what the calendar says.


I argued that it would be best to have "W 40/41" which would do away with any confusion whatsoever, and would be scientifically most correct (as it would account for 10 days of winter in Dec), but apparently there was not enough space on the toolbar. Between "winter as last turn" and "winter as first turn" I'd always pick the "winter as first turn" philosophy, though.

O.



_____________________________


(in reply to QBeam)
Post #: 31
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/25/2005 11:35:43 PM   
QBeam

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline
There was an interesting quiz in an issue of Psychology Today back in the mid-80s I remember taking. It had a number of unlabeled figures, which you were asked to label. For example, one of them was a circle, cut into four parts by a horizontal and vertical lines. You were asked to number them, 1-4. Naturally, I labeled them 2, 1, 3, 4, from left-to-right, top-to-bottom. I laughed when I read the "answers," which noted that something like 78% of people asked to do this would label them 1, 2, 3, 4, from left-to-right, top-to-bottom, because that's how people read. The next most common answers were, if I remember correctly, 1, 2, 4, 3, and 4, 1, 3, 2, given by people who just labeled them in clockwise order--the first by people who started with top-left, where you start when you read, and the second by people who started where the clock starts. After that was an answer some women gave, that apparently mapped up with the arrangement of the controls on a stove. Mine was the rarest answer, which, the article noted unenlighteningly (I thought), was "related to a kind of analytic calculus."

The amusing origin of the article was the fact that scientists were then planning control arrangements for the international space station, and discovering that arrangements that were intuitive to some people made no sense at all to others. To Westerners, for example, red buttons say "emergency," but, for obvious reasons, to Chinese Communists red said "safe and effective."

Anyway, my point is the same as before: these are conventions. I don't think one is right--I just think it's very helpful if we stick with the most commonly held convention--even if does mean I have to remember that the quadrants of a circle do not correspond to the unit-circle, and that I have to order my dates month-day-year.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 32
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 12:33:53 AM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
Bravo Oleg!

I couldnt have said it better myself!

Doesn't that "clear it up" for you "winter at the end of year" guys?



later

Mike

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 33
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 12:36:28 AM   
sveint


Posts: 2474
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: French Polynesia
Status: online
Oh no, something new!

_____________________________


(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 34
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 12:45:36 AM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
hmmm....interesting psychology...

I guess, to me, I understand the "confusion" people have, but disagree with the purpose for debating to change it...

The year starts, unequivocally, on January 1st (from a western world, roman calendar-esque frame of reference) This is...."un"-debatable.

Winter fills the FIRST three months of the year (less about 9 days). This is also..."un"-assailable.

Therefore, (using simple practical logic here..) Winter IS the FIRST season of the month.


Regardless of what "convention" (not where I am from!) says about seasons and blah, blah about rebirth , etc..etc.. The point is firm.... Winter IS the first season of the new year, and the game adheres to that scientific and STANDARD convention.

Still not sure what the arguement is and how it is valid?? I mean, dont get me wrong, I love a good debate and all....but, this is kinda....moot? Maybe I need to move into the southern hemisphere to have a different frame of reference!

later

Mike

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to QBeam)
Post #: 35
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 12:56:17 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QBeam
Anyway, my point is the same as before: these are conventions.


Interesting quiz example. Personally I'd go for clock-logic, thus 4, 1, 3, 2, ie clockwise beginning with upper right "segment".

As for conventions, I think people - at least people in Europe and USA - tend to ignore fall/autumn in their conscious or subconscious mind.

I guess most people, relying on their "feel", not science, would "rank" months like this:

Jan, Feb - Winter (OK, no problems here)

March, April, May - Spring (first problem, March is technically 70% Winter)

June, July, August - Summer (again, June is 70% Spring)

Late September, maybe half of October - Fall (when it rains and leaves fall off) Perhaps not even this much. This period is oftenly called "Indian summer". (BTW we have similar term involving "summer" in my language, and I guess in other languages too - we call it "grandma's summer", perhaps because summer is "old" by then ) So poor old Fall is discriminated against.

Late Oct, Nov, Dec - Winter again

So, based on how we "feel" we tend to "project" Winter on four, four and a half months (perhaps even more in Russia, Sweden, Alaska and Canada ), and "shrink" fall on couple weeks when leaves fall and is kinda rainy, but not yet freezing.

But our collective perception is wrong Fall has to have proper 3 months as any other season

(This has to be most useless thread on Matrix boards )

O.


_____________________________


(in reply to QBeam)
Post #: 36
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 1:40:19 AM   
dembe73

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
Winter starts in the end of the year according to the Roman calendar. December and the Christmas period are associated with being the last part of the year and as a consequence so is winter.

Just having a turn number displayed rather than only using the seasons would have been more clear.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 37
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 3:56:34 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline
I vote that there should be an option to turn the world upside right and use the Australian seasons. No sense in having a northern hemisphere bias.

http://goaustralia.about.com/b/a/2003_06_29.htm

http://www.a-la-carte-australia-tours.com/winter-tours.html

_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

(in reply to dembe73)
Post #: 38
RE: WAW date sytem????? - 4/26/2005 6:29:21 PM   
QBeam

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mike mcmann

hmmm....interesting psychology...

I guess, to me, I understand the "confusion" people have, but disagree with the purpose for debating to change it...

The year starts, unequivocally, on January 1st (from a western world, roman calendar-esque frame of reference) This is...."un"-debatable.

Winter fills the FIRST three months of the year (less about 9 days). This is also..."un"-assailable.

Therefore, (using simple practical logic here..) Winter IS the FIRST season of the month.


Regardless of what "convention" (not where I am from!) says about seasons and blah, blah about rebirth , etc..etc.. The point is firm.... Winter IS the first season of the new year, and the game adheres to that scientific and STANDARD convention.

Still not sure what the arguement is and how it is valid?? I mean, dont get me wrong, I love a good debate and all....but, this is kinda....moot? Maybe I need to move into the southern hemisphere to have a different frame of reference!

later

Mike


The problem is, you've adopted an arbitrary test, but don't seem to appreciate that it is arbitrary. I could just as well argue:

"The year starts, unequivocally, on January 1st (from a western world, roman calendar-esque frame of reference) This is...."un"-debatable. The first season to start after the new year is Spring. This is also unassailable. Therefore, using practical logic, Spring is the FIRST season of the year."

More importantly, your choice to order the seasons based on the calendar is itself an arbitrary choice. As I've pointed out already, there are other, far more practical (if not more logical) bases for ordering the seasons. I think the most important of those is common expectation, based on convention. It might be "logical" to express the dates in hexidecimal code, but it's foolish, since it won't be understood by the audience. I'd say putting Winter first is a similar mistake, though, obviously, of a much lesser magnitude.

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 39
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War >> RE: WAW date sytem????? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.168