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I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't used to attack shipping...

 
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I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't used ... - 3/29/2005 10:23:52 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
This is from the day-by-day history of 5th Bombardment Group, from 12-07-41 to 12-31-42. It goes on until 1945, but frankly, I believe that I have sufficiently proven that heavy bombers were indeed -FREQUENTLY- used in an anti-shipping role. For the sake of brevity (if you could call it that), I have only included entries that include B-17s or B-24s. I have also included those that say "the strike was inconclusive" or "no hits were scored" or whatever else. My point is is simply present the fact that Heavy bombers were FREQUENTLY employed against enemy shipping. And before you insult the valor and sacrifice of the men on the missions by saying, "It doesn't say they hit much."... If you'd like the read the entire unit history, you're more than welcome to bring it up here 5th AF History. (I actually originally pulled a scanned version, but this one is much easier to read). You'll note that it NEVER says they hit much, for ANY aircraft listed. It's simply a log that says "we bombed this". There are very few entries of planes lost, destroyed, ships damaged, or the damage to the airfield that was attacked, regardless of the type of aircraft employed. Again, this is log of the missions, not an analysis of the results (however, it is obvious that if they were NOT successful at a given mission, they would not have continued to be employed as such for nearly 10 years, even into the Korean War). To illustrate, the effects of the obviously much more "suited" missions of bombing an AF at Lae, are not embellished with results. Just because the history does not state, "Lae AF was hit by 14 bombs, and showed no sorties for 2 days." does not mean that every mission listed as bombing the AFs at Lae, hit nothing. For the umteenth time, this is a mission log. It's not a results analysis. Unfortunately, I believe that the nay-sayers are simply blinded by emotional bias, and will continue to whine about the situation. But the historical logs say otherwise...

Enjoy.
-F-


Wednesday 10 December 1941
B-17's, P-40's, and P-35's attack a convoy landing troops and equipment at Vigan and at Aparri in N.Luzon. 1 transport at Vigan is destroyed. The strikes include the much publicized attack of Captain Colin P Kelly Jr of the 14th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) on a warship off Aparri. Captain Kelly, who is killed when his B-17 is shot down by fighters as he is returning to Clark Field, is later posthumously awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) for destroying a battleship. However, later information reveals that he attacked the heavy cruiser ASHIGARA, probably scoring near misses.


Monday 22 December 1941
9 B-17's from Batchelor Field near Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia, attack shipping in Davao Bay, Mindanao Island and land at Del Monte on Mindanao Island. HQ 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the ground echelon of it's 9th, 11th and 22d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) and attached 88th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) arrive at Brisbane, Australia from the US. The air echelons of the 9th and 11th are enroute from the US to Australia with B-17's; the air echelons of the 22d and 88th are operating from Hickam Field, Oahu, Territory of Hawaii until 5 January 1942 and 10 February 1942 respectively with B-17's. The 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light) transfer from Ft William McKinley to Lipa Airfield, San Fernando and San Marceleno, Luzon respectively without aircraft.

Tuesday 23 December 1941
4 B-17's take off from Del Monte on Mindanao Island after midnight during the night of 22/23 Dec and bomb shipping in Lingayen Gulf, Luzon. 12 P-4O's and 6 P-35's strafe forces landing in San Miguel Bay on Luzon. The Far East Air Force comes under control of the newly-created US Forces in Australia (USFIA). Major General Lewis H. Brereton, Commanding General Far East Air Force, receives orders establishing HQ Far East Air Force at Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia.



Wednesday 24 December 1941
3 B-17's fly from Del Monte, Mindanao Island during the night of 24/25 Dec, bomb the airfield and shipping at Davao on Mindanao Island and land at Batchelor Field near Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia. 2 airplanes leave Manila, Luzon for Darwin with personnel of HQ Far East Air Force. Army Air Force units on Luzon, as well as ground forces, begin moving to Bataan Peninsula. HQ 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the air echelon of the 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) transfer from Clark Field, Luzon to Batchelor Field with B-17's. The ground echelon of the 28th will fight as infantry on Luzon and Mindanao. The air echelon of the 14th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) begins operating from Batchelor Field with B-17's. The ground echelon is still at Clark Field, Luzon. The air echelons of the 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light) begin operating from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia with A-24's. The ground echelons will fight as infantry on Luzon. The 17th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), 24th Pursuit Group (Interceptor) ceases operating from Clark Field, Luzon with P-40's.



Monday 5 January 1942
B-17's from Malang, Java stage through Samarinda, Borneo during the night of 4/5 January and attack shipping in Davao Bay on Mindanao Island, Philippine Islands. US Forces in Australia (USFIA), which controls FEAF, is redesignated US Army Forces in Australia (USAFIA), and Major General George H Brett assumes command. The ground echelons of the 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light), transfer from Limay to Bataan Peninsula, Luzon, Philippine Islands. The air echelons are operating from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia with A-24's.


Friday 9 January 1942
B-17's, flying out of Kendari, Celebes Island, strike shipping in Davao Bay, Mindanao, Philippine Islands.



Sunday 11 January 1942
B-17's, out of Malang, Java, attack Japanese landing forces on Tarakan Island off Borneo.



Saturday 17 January 1942
On Celebes Island, B-17's from Malang, Java, staging through Kendari, hit Langoan Airfield and ships in Menado Bay.



Monday 19 January 1942
B-17's, flying out of Malang, Java, attack shipping at Jolo Island in the Philippine Islands. The air echelon of the 9th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Singosari to Jogjakarta, Java with B-17's. The ground echelon is at Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. The air echelons of the 11th and 22d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfer from Singosari to Jogjakarta, Java with B-17's; the ground echelons transfer from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia to Jogjakarta.



Thursday 22 January 1942
From this date through 3 Feb, B-17's launch at least 15 missions out of Malang, Java against shipping moving through Makassar Strait between Borneo and Celebes Island. 4 missions abort due to bad weather, 6 end with negative results, and the remaining 5 suffer heavy losses but sink 4 ships.



Monday 2 February 1942
Bad weather from now until 18 Feb, along with effective interception by fighters, thwarts attempts of heavy bombers in Java to deliver damaging blows on shipping and airfields in the Netherlands East Indies (NEI). B-17's strikes from Singosari, Java against shipping at Balikpapan, Borneo on 9 Feb and an airfield at Kendari, Celebes Island on 9 Feb are repulsed by fighter attacks. B-17's on a shipping strike claim hits on a carrier near Sinjai, Sumatra.


Tuesday 3 February 1942
Bad weather from now until 18 February, along with effective interception by fighters, thwarts attempts of heavy bombers in Java to deliver damaging blows on shipping and airfields in the Netherlands East Indies (NEI). B-17's strikes from Singosari, Java against shipping at Balikpapan, Borneo on 9 Feb and an airfield at Kendari, Celebes Island on 9 Feb are repulsed by fighter attacks. B-17's on a shipping strike claim hits on a carrier near Sinjai, Sumatra.



Monday 9 February 1942
Between now and 18 February, heavy bombers fly at lesst 14 missions, but they result in claims of only 3 hits on shipping.



Thursday 19 February 1942
In the NEI, A-24's, with P-40 escort, and B-17's operating out of Malang, Madioen, and Jogjakarta, Java, attack vessels landing troops on Bali; the attacks, carried out during the aftenoon of 19 Feb and throughout the morning of 20 Feb, cause considerable damage to vessels but fail to halt the landings; P-40's shoot down or turn back seversl bombers sweeping W over Java. Japanese aircraft attack Darwin, Australia, bombing vessels loaded with troops destined for the defense of Koepang on Timor Island; 10 P-40's sent to Darwin to escort the convoy are almost entirely wiped out by the attack.



Friday 27 February 1942
The Battle of Java Sea. Allied air and naval units try to stop a convoy of some 80 ships approaching Java from the Northeast. All available B-17's, A-24's, P-40's and LB-30's are put into the air but achieve only insignificant results. An Allied naval force, 5 cruisers and 11 destroyers, under Rear Admiral Karel W Doorman, Royal Netherlands Navy, meets the enemy near Surabaya, Java and is decisively defeated, losing 5 ships. Most of the 5th Air Force ground echelon in Java is evacusted by sea. The SS Sea Witch delivers 27 crated P-40's to Tjilatjap, Java, but these will be destroyed to prevent their falling into Japanese hands. 32 P-40's aboard the Seaplane Tender USS Langley (AV-3), which sailed from Australia for India on 23 February, are lost when the USS Langley is sunk by aircraft 100 mi (160 km) South of Tjilatjsp. The pilots are rescued by other vessels in the convoy, but the enemy sinks these ships with the exception of a destroyer, which delivers 2 of the pilots to Perth, Australia. 13th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Melbourne, Australia from the US with B-17's; first mission is October 1942.



Friday 27 February 1942
The Battle of Java Sea. Allied air and naval units try to stop a convoy of some 80 ships approaching Java from the Northeast. All available B-17's, A-24's, P-40's and LB-30's are put into the air but achieve only insignificant results. An Allied naval force, 5 cruisers and 11 destroyers, under Rear Admiral Karel W Doorman, Royal Netherlands Navy, meets the enemy near Surabaya, Java and is decisively defeated, losing 5 ships. Most of the 5th Air Force ground echelon in Java is evacusted by sea. The SS Sea Witch delivers 27 crated P-40's to Tjilatjap, Java, but these will be destroyed to prevent their falling into Japanese hands. 32 P-40's aboard the Seaplane Tender USS Langley (AV-3), which sailed from Australia for India on 23 February, are lost when the USS Langley is sunk by aircraft 100 mi (160 km) South of Tjilatjsp. The pilots are rescued by other vessels in the convoy, but the enemy sinks these ships with the exception of a destroyer, which delivers 2 of the pilots to Perth, Australia. 13th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Melbourne, Australia from the US with B-17's; first mission is October 1942.



Saturday, 9 May, 1942
8 B-26's and a single B-17 attack shipping and seaplanes at Deboyne Island, New Guinea. 8th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 3d Bombardment Group (Light), transfers from Port Moresby, New Guinea to Charters Towers, Australia with A-20's; combat operations continue.



Wednesday, 13 May, 1942
B-17's and B-26's hit shipping and the airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island. 30th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Cloncurry to Longreach, Australia with B-17's.


Monday, 18 May, 1942
B-17's bomb shipping in Koepang Bay, Timor Island. HQ 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) transfers from Garbutt Field to Longreach, Australia with B-17's. Detachment of 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), ceases operating from Perth and returns to Longreach, Australia with B-17's



Friday, 19 June, 1942
B-17s pound shipping and Vunakanau Airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island.


Thursday, 23 July, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s, B-26s, A-24s and fighters pound shipping, landing barges, storage dumps, AA positions, and troop concentrations at Buna and Gona as the enemy pushes inland along the Kokoda trail; fighters also hit the harbor at Salamaua. 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Longreach to Mareeba, Australia with B-17s, B-24s and LB-30s.

Thursday, 30 July, 1942
B-17s attack shipping in the Solomon Sea East of the Huon Gulf and South of New Britain Island.


Friday, 31 July, 1942
B-17s hit Gona, New Guinea and a nearby transport which had been previously damaged, and bomb Kukum Beach and Lunga landing strip on the North coast of Guadalcanal Island as the US invasion forces leave the Fiji Islands for the Solomon Islands.


Saturday, 1 August, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s attack installations at Gona and shipping 75 mi (121 km) East of Salamaua in Huon Gulf. HQ 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from Sydney to Torrens Creek, Australia.

Sunday, 2 August, 1942
In New Guinea, 1 B-17 flies an unsuccessful strike against a cargo vessel 5 mi (8 km) South of Salamaua while another bombs Gona. 64th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Daly Waters to Fenton Field, Australia with B-17s; first mission is 13 August.


Friday, 7 August, 1942
13 B-17s of the 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), led by Lieutenant Colonel Richard H Carmichael hit Vunakanau Airfield, New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago, in coordination with US Marine Corps (USMC) landings on Guadalcanal Island. B-26s attack Lae, New Guinea, and a B-17 and a B-25 each attack a submarine in the Gulf of Papua. HQ 38th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 405th Bombardment Squadron (Medium) move from Eagle Farms and Ballarat respectively to Breddan Field, Australia with B-25s; first mission is 17 September.

Sunday, 9 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping and airfields at Rabaul, New Britain Island and Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island while B-26s hit the harbor area at Salamaua, New Guinea.


Wednesday, 12 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island, scoring damaging hits on 3 vessels. 71st Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 38th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Batchelor Field to Breddan Field, Australia with B-25s; first mission is 15 September.


Thursday, 13 August, 1942
A Japanese convoy, headed toward Basabua near Gona, New Guinea, with 3,000 construction troops, is attacked first by B-17s 76 mi (122 km) NE of Gona, followed by B-26s 20-25 mi (32-40 km) N of Gona and another B-17 attack as the convoy approaches landing position. In New Guinea, Japanese ground forces attack at Deniki, driving Allied forces back about 5 mi (8 km) and firmly securing the Buna-Kokoda trail.


Friday, 14 August, 1942
B-17s attack shipping off Gona, New Guinea.

Wednesday, 19 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping on Faisi Island, Shortland Islands, Solomon Islands.

Sunday, 30 August, 1942
B-17s attack shipping in Saint George's Channel between New Ireland and New Britain Islands.

Sunday, 6 September, 1942
In New Guinea, P-400s, A-20s, and B-17s strafe and bomb positions, troops, and shipping at Myola, Mubo, Kokoda, Myola Lake, Eora Creek, and Milne Bay; Australian ground forces continue to clear the enemy from the Milne Bay area while Australian troops in the Owen Stanley Range fall back to the vicinity of the Efogi Spur beyond Gap Mountain, where defensive positions are already established.

Friday, 11 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s hit Efogi and Menari in the Owen Stanley Range and Buna Airfield; B-17s, along with RAAF Hudsons, attack 2 destroyers 20 miles (32 km) East of Normanby Island; a B-17 scores a direct hit on the stern of the destroyer Yayoi, which later sinks


Saturday, 12 September, 1942
P-400s, B-26s, A-20s, and B-17s bomb the airfield and strafe barges at Buna, New Guinea. P-40s strafe Gadaibai on Goodenough Island. A B-17 strafes a vessel in Bismarck Sea S of Kavieng, New Ireland Island, Bismarck Archipelago.


Sunday, 13 September, 1942
B-26s pound the airfield at Lae, New Guinea. B-17s unsuccessfully attack a cruiser Southeast of Rabaul, New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago. P-40s strafe buildings on Goodenough Island.

Wednesday, 16 September, 1942
B-17s bomb the wharf and airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island and airfield on Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island. In New Guinea, a lone B-17 attacks landing barges in the Sanananda area while a single A-20 bombs and strafes positions at Nauro and Menari in the Efogi area; the Japanese ground offensive toward Port Moresby comes to a halt at Ioribaiwa; Australians are entrenched on Imita Range where they are preparing a counteroffensive.

Saturday, 19 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s strafe and bomb the airfield at Lae; and the 7th Fighter Squadron, 49th Fighter Group, moves from Batchelor, Australia to Port Moresby with P-40s. B-17s attack cargo vessels near Umboi (Rooke) Island between New Guinea and New Britain Island. A whaling vessel is strafed by fighters off Goodenough Island.

Tuesday, 22 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe occupied areas at Menari, Efogi, Nauro, Yodda, and Kokoda; P-40s strafe AA positions, huts, and barges at Buna and Salamaua and bomb and strafe Wairopi bridge, strafe buildings at Yodda, the airfield at Buna, and AA positions and other targets along the Buna-Kokoda trail; 1 B-25 bombs the North end of Buna Airfield and the coastal end of Sanananda track. B-17s bomb the airfield and shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Thursday, 24 September, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, P-40s and A-20s hit Mubo while B-17s bomb wrecked vessel at Gona; P-40s hit the airfield at Kokoda and targets along the Kokoda-Wairopi trail, including a bridge at Wairopi.

Saturday, 26 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe forces North of Ioribaiwa and along the Efogi-Menari trail in support of the Australian counteroffensive in Papua; and a B-17, along with RAAF aircraft, bomb Buna Airfield. B-17s strike shipping and airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Friday, 2 October, 1942
In the Owen Stanley Range of New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe Japanese campsites around Myola and hit several trails in the area, while P-400s strafe bridges at Sirorata and Wairopi and a village Northeast of Wairopi. B-17s bomb shipping and airfield at Rabaul on New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago.

Thursday, 15 October, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and P-40s pound forces South of Templeton's Crossing and at Popondetta; B-25s bomb Salamaua and hit targets in the Owen Stanley Range and in the area around the bridge at Wairopi. A single B-17 attacks shipping near Treasury Islands, Solomon Islands.

Sunday, 18 October, 1942
B-17s attack shipping and aircraft in the Faisi area in the Shortland Islands, Solomon Islands, schooners and buildings at Lorengau on Manus Island, Admiralty Islands, Kahili Airfield, and shipping off Kahili, Pupukuna Point, and Buin on Bougainville Island. In New Guinea, B-25s hit Wairopi bridge in the Owen Stanley Range, the village of Mubo, and the dock and occupied area on Pilelo Island; the Fifth AF completes the air movement of most of the 128th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division, to Wanigela; and the 39th Fighter Squadron, 35th Fighter Group, moves from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with P-38s.

Sunday, 25 October, 1942
13 B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe the Isurava-Kokoda trail, the W bank of the Kumusi River, and the area North of Asisi as Australian ground forces push toward Kokoda in the Owen Stanley Range; and HQ 38th Bombardment Group (Medium) and the 405th Bombardment Squadron (Medium) move from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with B-25s. The 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Mareeba, Australia to the US.

Wednesday, 28 October, 1942
B-17s pound shipping in the harbor at Rabaul, New Britain Island, while B-25s bomb the airfield on Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island.


Thursday, 29 October, 1942
A-20s hit the Isurava-Deniki and Abuari-Kaile trails, New Guinea; B-17s attack shipping in BougainvilleStrait between Buin, Bougainville Island and Faisi Island, Shortland Islands. The 71st Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 38th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with B-25s.


Friday, 30 October, 1942
B-17s bomb harbor and shipping at Buin, Bougainville Island.


Saturday, 31 October, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe Nauro and the area to N; B-25s strafe supply trucks Southeast of Gona. B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island, and in Buin, Bougainville-Faisi Island-Tonolai, Bougainville Island area.

Sunday, 1 November, 1942
B-25s bomb the airfield and dump area at Lae, New Guinea. In the Solomon Islands, B-17s strike shipping in the Buin, Bougainville Island-Faisi Island, Shortland Islands-Tonolai, Bougainville Island area. Kahili Airfield on Bougainville Island is also attacked. A detachment of the 33d Troop Carrier Squadron, 315th Troop Carrier Group, begins operating from Cairns, Queensland, Australia with C-47s (squadron is enroute to Australia from the US).

Monday, 2 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Dili, Timor Island, Lesser Sunda Islands. B-17s attack shipping Northeast of Buna, New Guinea while B-25s strike at a convoy South of New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago. In New Guinea, Australian ground forces seize Kokoda in the Owen Stanley Range with its airfield after long days of fighting; this will greatly facilitate supply and reinforcement of troops in this area as they push over the mountains toward the Buna-Gona area.


Tuesday, 3 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Dili, Timor Island. B-17s bomb the airfield and wharf at Lae, New Guinea, and attack a ship South of Gasmata Island off the S coast of New Britain Island.


Wednesday, 4 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Aileu on Timor Island. In New Guinea, B-17s and B-25s bomb the town and harbor of Salamaua; A-20s hit troop concentrations at Oivi, where an Australian attack meets firm resistance; transports fly most of the remainder of the 128th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division, to Wanigela. HQ 90th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the 319th, 320th, 321st and 400th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Iron Range, Queensland, Australia from Hawaii with B-24s (first mission is 13 November).

Thursday, 12 November, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Tonolai harbor on Bougainville Island. In New Guinea, the 3d Battalion of the 126th Infantry Regiment, US 32d Infantry Division, is airlifted from Port Moresby to Pongani; the troops immediately start overland toward Natunga; the 2nd Battalion, flown in earlier, reaches Bofu. HQ 374th Troop Carrier Group is activated at Brisbane, Australia.


Friday, 13 November, 1942
On Bougainville Island, B-17s bomb shipping off Tonolai-Komaleai Point and the airfield at Kahili. A B-17 strafes a schooner in Lorengau harbor on Manus Island, Admiralty Islands.


Saturday, 14 November, 1942
In New Guinea, 1 B-25 bombs and strafes the track North of Soputa; Fifth AF aircraft drop bridging equipment at Wairopi on the Kokoda trail where the Australian 25 Brigade is crossing on improvised bridge; US and Australian forces are consolidating at Natunga and in the Oro Bay-Embogu-Embi areas. 2 B-17s attack transport in the Solomon Islands.


Sunday, 15 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe targets near Gona while B-25s and B-26s pound AA positions at Buna and Soputa as US and Australian ground forces prepare to move against the Buna-Gona beachhead. B-17s hit shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. The 435th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Townsville, Australia to the US (the squadron will re-equip with B-29s and return to the Pacific in August 45).

Wednesday, 18 November, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s bomb them airfields at Lae and Salamaua; B-17s attack warships 50 miles (80 km) Southwest of Gasmata Island located off the South coast of New Britain Island, 17 miles (27 km) North of Buna, and between Gona and Cape Ward Hunt; B-26s bomb and strafe the area between Cape Endaiadere and Buna. The 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Mareeba, Australia to the US (squadron will return to Guam in January, 1945 with B-29s).

Sunday, 22 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s pound trails around Sanananda while B-26s hit the Buna area; B-17s and B-25s hit the airfield at Lae and barges between Lae and Salamaua, and attack warships 68 miles (109 km) SW of Arawe, New Britain Island and elsewhere in the Solomon Sea

Tuesday, 24 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-25s, B-26s, B-17s, P-40s, P-39s, and P-400s hit Sanananda Point, the Buna area, the Sanananda-Soputa trail S of Sanananda, and the area between Cape Killerton and Sanananda Point as Allied forces launch a ground assault on The Triangle; the attack is repelled by fierce resistance; B-17s also bomb 2 destroyers and a light cruiser between Lae and Finschhafen.

Sunday, 29 November, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s, P-40s, and A-20s pound the Gona area while B-25s and a single A-20 bomb the airfield at Lae; B-17s intercept a force of 4 troopcarrying destroyers proceeding through Vitiaz Strait between New Britain Island and New Guinea without air cover; the B-17s damage 2 vessels and cause the others to turn back, thus preventing reinforcement of Gona with fresh troops from Rabaul on New Britain Island.

Wednesday, 2 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-17s, B-25s and P-400s attack four destroyers off Guna and Gona, and the airfield and positions in the Buna area and between Watutu Point and Cape Killerton. As a result of this attack, the destroyers, originally bound for Gona with 800 reinforcements, lands the troops near the mouth of the Kumment River twelve miles to the north. After a bombardment of Gona, Allied ground forces attack in strength but are again halted short of the village.


Thursday, 3 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-25s and P-400s bomb and strafe Sanananda Point and the Buna areas and attack a small torpedo boat in Dyke Acland Bay. During the night of 3/4 Dec, B-17s bomb airfields at Lae and Salamaua. On the ground, the US roadblock on the Soputa-Sanananda trail remains precarious as the Japanese maintain attacks from all sides and hold off US reinforcements. In the Bismarck Archipelago, a lone B-17s attacks a submarine 75 miles southeast of Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Monday, 7 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s pound the area around Buna as ground forces attack the village and clear a trench at the southern edge; B-25s also hit the airfield at Lae. B-17s attack a wrecked vessel off Gona and a tanker off Gasmata Island, Bismarck Archipelago.

Sunday, 13 December, 1942
In New Guinea, a Japanese convoy of five destroyers is detected off Madang, as it attempts to bring in reinforcements for the beachhead in the Buna area. B-17s and B-24s attack as it moves south but fail to deter its progress. Meanwhile A-20s bomb and strafe the Cape Killerton area while B-17s bomb the Salamaua area. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-26s hit the airfield on Gasmata Island.


Monday, 14 December, 1942
In New Guinea, the five Japanese troop-carrying destroyers attack by Fifth Air Force aircraft yesterday, reach the mouth of the Mambare River and unload without being detected. However, medium and light bombers and fighters, along with Royal Australian Air Force aircraft, subsequently deliver damaging blows against these troops and their supplies and also hit forces along the Kumusi River in the Cape Endaiadere area and along the Mambare River. The five destroyers are attacked off Cape Ward Hunt by medium and heavy bombers. Attacks are also carried out agains the Lae Airfield and the airfield on Gasmata Island, Bismarck Archipelago. On the ground, American troops capture Buna.


Tuesday, 15 December 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s hit Japanese forces along the Mambare River while a B-24 bombs a wrecked ship at Gona.


Wednesday, 16 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s hit forces in the Buna area and at the mouth of the Kumusi River, and strafe barges on the lagoon shoreline south of the Kumusi's mouth. Meanwhile, B-24s attack a wreck off Gona, a cargo vessel in the Bismarck Sea, and a destroyer, two cargo ships and two tankers in the Solomon Sea, southeast of Cape Orford.

Friday, 18 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s hit positions at Kurenada in the Cape Endaiadere area while Allied ground forces launch a concerted assault. B-17s attack a convoy in Astrolabe Bay off Madang, while B-24s bomb the Alexishafen area and other B-24s bomb the airfield at Lae and attack the convoy off Madang and a transport northwest of Lorengau.


Saturday, 19 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-25s hit the Buna Mission area in which Australian forces attacking The Triangle are halted by fierce crossfire. B-17s and B-24s attack warships, transports and cargo vessels off Madang in Astrolabe Bay and north northwest of Finschhafen off the coast of Huon Peninsula. Meanwhile, B-25 bomb the Lae Airfield.

Monday, 21 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s attack vessels in Finschhafen harbor while B-24s carry out single-bomber strikes on a cargo ship north of Finschhafen and barges at the mouth of the Mambare River and off Cape Ward Hunt.


Tuesday, 22 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s bomb Maimba mission and the village near Buna when Japanese ground forces continue to resist stubbornly; B-17s hit a ship in the harbor at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, a single B-24 attacks a transport off Gasmata Island.


Wednesday, 23 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe troops near Gona and at Woiba Islands while B-24s attack a cargo ship at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-25s bomb Cape Gloucester Airfield on New Britain Island and attack a ship at Pilelo Island. B-24s carry out single-bomber attacks on a transport west southwest of Cape Orford, a vessel northwest of Lorengau and the Cape Gloucester Airfield.


Thursday, 24 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe troops near Kel Kel and along the northern bank of the Amboga River and trail. B-24s, operating singly, bomb Lae, a schooner in Vitiaz Strait, and the harbor at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s and B-24s hit shipping and the airfield at Gasmata Island.


Friday, 25 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, a B-17 attacks a submarine in Wide Bay off New Britain; one B-24 attacks runways at Cape Gloucester Airfield. In New Guinea, a B-24 bombs Lae.


Saturday, 26 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, heavy bombers carry out single-bomber attacks against Cape Gloucester Airfield on New Britain Island and attack shipping off New Britain. In New Guinea, heavy bombers carry out single-bomber attacks against Finschhafen and Madang. Japanese aircraft from Rabaul, New Britain Island attack Doboduru but are driven off by US fighters.


Sunday, 27 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s pound shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, B-26s hit targets in the Gona area while a single B-24 hits the runway at Finschhafen. In their first significant action in the Pacific, a dozen P-38s of the 39th Fighter Squadron, 35th Fighter Group engage some 24 Japanese aircraft, claiming nine Zekes and two Vals shot down for one P-38 damaged.

Wednesday, 30 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s bombs shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, A-20s strafe forces in the Duvira Creek area while B-24s carry out single-bomber attacks on the airfield at Lae, Madang Village, and troops and vehicles at Wewak. A B-17 strafes a schooner in Jacquinot Bay.


Thursday, 31 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe forces in the Sanananda and Giruwa area and along the Amboga River. B-26s pound forces on the north shore of the Markham River near its mouth, while A-20s strafe parked aircraft at Lae In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-24s operating singly, bomb the airfield on Gasmata Island and attack shipping in Wide Bay and Saint George Channel.


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Post #: 1
RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 10:30:51 PM   
wild_Willie2


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ok, it MIGHT have happened once or twice that a B17/24 dropped a bomb near a ship, but I am stil not convinced

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 10:45:52 PM   
pad152

 

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Yes, B17s and B24s did attack ships but, got less hits than what we see in Witp. Once bomber groups reach experince of 80+ they become supper dupper weapons.

Japan lost very few ships taking the East Dutch Indies this stands as historical fact.



< Message edited by pad152 -- 3/29/2005 10:49:14 PM >

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:20:27 PM   
Feinder


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quote:

Yes, B17s and B24s did attack ships but, got less hits than what we see in Witp. Once bomber groups reach experince of 80+ they become supper dupper weapons.


Very true. And, I most certainly agree with you. Frankly, I think the accuracy of -many- weapons in WitP, are severely over-rated (*coughs...ASW...coughs*).

You know what was interesting that I came across tho...? Skip bombing was come up with as an atlernative to level-bombing (we all know that), but the interesting thing was that, it was developed as a way for less experienced crews to be more proficient at bombing ships. It was decided that skip-bombing was in fact much -easier- than level bombing (true enough, fly at target in gentle dive, release about 80 yds from target about 150 feet of altitude...). I just thought it was interesting (since in WitP, skip bombing requires a farily high exp rating).

You know, what would be the effects of switching the exp requirements in WitP for skip and level bombing ships? What if you made the requirement 70 exp for LEVEL-bombing ships, instead of skip-bombing?

Frankly, I hate skip bombing. The effects on moral are horrible (massive drops). You suffer heavier Flak losses. And every plane on CAP gets to take a swipe at you because there's no, "Climbing to intercept". Yes you do get an accuracy bonus, but who wants to use the (puny) penetration value of Allied 250 or 500 lb bombs vs. the BELT armor of the target. Deck armor is -ALWAYS- weaker. I never use skip bombing, because even if you hit (a capital ship), you have zero chance of pentating anything. Whereas with level bombing, you at least have a chance to pentrate the deck.

-F-

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:27:33 PM   
Halsey

 

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I feel guilty every time my 4E bombers go after an IJN transport TF within range.
Well, almost.

I keep em at 6000', and if the TF is trying to unload, it's usually a one way trip for them. It might take two or three days to wipe them out.

These guys are a lot better at destroying merchant ships than the crummy Allied subs are.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:30:21 PM   
Nikademus


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Inexperienced BG's are generally going to get fairly poor results when bombing. Unfortunately one way to get around this is to "train" your ship killers by having them bomb an empty enemy base continuously. It provides a fairly quick and painless means to produce an exp 70 bomber squadron in a short period of time.

I tend to avoid this tactic when PBEMing or playing the AI because of that. (and use either training mission or attack targets that actually can use some loving attention)

Have also been fiddling with bomber loads in my mod.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:36:38 PM   
Halsey

 

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In my first PBEM game I didn't use 4E bombers on naval attack till 9/42. That's 10 months of restraint. Don't know if I could do it again.

Probably won't against Irrelevant.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:41:34 PM   
Nikademus


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I can afford to be restrained. I have my Ron S. toggle enabled. The rest is easy.

That is if he ever gets his 'puter back up and sends me a turn...the lazy Imperialist Swine....

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:43:55 PM   
Halsey

 

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After seeing how easy they can smoke merchants, it's real hard "not" to use them in the anti-shipping role.

By the way Feinder, I think they should have the ability for naval attack. It's just that the mechanics make them super deadly. More so than they really were.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:45:57 PM   
Nikademus


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Sounds like its time to send a bombardment TF.......

whoops...did i say that with my outside voice?

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:48:01 PM   
Halsey

 

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It's kinda hard to reach Dacca by sea.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:53:27 PM   
Nikademus


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Calling Mr. Bose.......Mr Bose to the Imperial Palace please...

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:53:51 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

I feel guilty every time my 4E bombers go after an IJN transport TF within range.
Well, almost.


According to Fire from the Sky which is a book about the air campaign in the South Pacific, B-17's were used to develop the US skip-bombing attacks. The first one was successful, although the B-17 got pretty shot up. Only latter did they use medium bombers in a very successful adaptation.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:54:23 PM   
testarossa


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and its time to place 15 TFs with 1 AK and a couple of MTB TFs. Come and try to hit something on the airfiled.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:55:37 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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I haven't any problem with the way B-17 bomb ships in WITP. My problem is that there are at any time far more B-17 in WITP that in RL, so they are so important in the game.

OK we have the uber Nells/Betties on the other hand but the game would be far more interesting with less heavy bombers (and less easy to use) and with Betties/Nells using torps from AF size 6 and more.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:57:12 PM   
Nikademus


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Yep...Salecker talks about the 17's training for it in Fortress Against the Sun too and Kenney's enthusiasm to develop it.

Still...i big 4E at wave height makes for a bigger target too. Just aim for the lude picture on the fusilage.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/29/2005 11:58:45 PM   
Halsey

 

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I had to start using 4E's in the naval attack.
Couldn't get the IJN player to come within range of my 2E planes.
He just kept pulling back.



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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 12:05:35 AM   
Nikademus


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hardly crickett to not come out and take a whupp'in.



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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 12:05:40 AM   
Halsey

 

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It's interesting that my opponent actually tried this approach.
So the computer compensated the airstrikes into smaller 4-6 plane strike packages.
It was very smart, it ignored the little escorts completely. They still got the AK's.
Must've had excellent DL's on the little buggers.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 12:06:18 AM   
Halsey

 

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That's what I thought!

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 12:07:28 AM   
Nikademus


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Pry's on top of that one....and i did some fiddling of my own vis-a-vis B-17 production for Pacific waters.

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 2:44:35 AM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

In my first PBEM game I didn't use 4E bombers on naval attack till 9/42.

And then you started? What did Roger do that p1ssed you off?

quote:

Probably won't against Irrelevant.

Probably won't what? Use 4E bombers on naval attack, or restrain yourself?

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 2:50:45 AM   
Halsey

 

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He sorties the entire IJN fleet together. Refuses to break them up, and only sends them out when Allied CV's are spotted.

The downside to this for him is that I have lots of little incursions all over the Pacific and Indian Ocean.

We tighten the noose...

Oh, and I should add,. The Allied subs are worthless in attacking anything, and this is with the sub doctrines off. The 4E bombers have been making up the deficit. Dud torpedoes? Try 95% duds and misses. The Allied subs have sunk around 25 ships in 11 months.

< Message edited by Halsey -- 3/30/2005 2:54:03 AM >


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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:00:24 AM   
tsimmonds


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4E bombers vs ships is not one but two completely different things.

4E bombers vs stationary ships should be vicious. The owners of such ships are gambling and must expect to pay the ante.

4E bombers vs moving ships were notoriously ineffective. It was almost impossible to hit a maneuvering target from 20,000 feet. In the time it takes a bomb to fall that far a ship moving at 15 kts is a quarter of a mile from where it was when the bombs were released. Plus, a 4E bomber does require a bomb run of some seconds duration that is relatively undisturbed by maneuvering such as might be required to track a ship that was maneuvering in an effort to avoid being hit by bombs.




Attachment (1)

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:05:42 AM   
Halsey

 

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I will say that so far most of my 4E naval missions have been against TF's at base hexes. Only a couple have flown against TF's at sea. So I guess you could say that the ones at the bases were stationary.

Boy are they deadly after their experience has improved!

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:09:35 AM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

Boy are they deadly after their experience has improved!

Betcha! And don't think that I don't realize that building experience is the whole idea behind all your futile high-level attacks....

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:11:11 AM   
Halsey

 

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At least I'm not attacking empty hexes!

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:19:02 AM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

At least I'm not attacking empty hexes!

Hey, I'm trying, but you run away too fast!

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:20:21 AM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

Calling Mr. Bose.......Mr Bose to the Imperial Palace please...


Just caught this one, LOL!

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RE: I'm tired of folks saying B-17s and B-24s weren't u... - 3/30/2005 3:25:22 AM   
Halsey

 

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Maybe to limit the # of 4E squadrons flying naval strike missions per airfield would help?

One? To simulate a patrol formation of 4E bombers. Who knows?

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