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Demo? - 3/18/2005 2:16:48 PM   
Zocker

 

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Hello,

im thinking abaout buying this Game.

But I have only 256 MB in my Computer.

I would like to have a Demo to see how this Game work on my Computer.

When will a Demo avalible?

I see people have proplems with the release date. Wouldt a Demo released yet reduce this "trouble"?

Sorry when this is alredy answerd


Rainer

P.S. sorry for my bad englich
Per Aspera ad Astra
Post #: 1
RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 5:14:31 PM   
MButtazoni


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no demo is planned at this time

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RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 5:27:07 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Hmm, you would think with such an emphasis on a "retail" release, you would have a demo, something almost all retail games use to promote their game. I would rethink that, a demo could significantly increase the retail, and all, sales of this game.

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Post #: 3
RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 9:25:34 PM   
ravinhood


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You know I might agree with you to a point Scott, but, then on the other side of the fence, many times I have gotten a demo and that was all I ever required of the game. I have a Rise of Nations demo, Doom demo, Restaurant Tycoon demo and several more that, well they were all I really needed for those games. So in some cases a demo can damage sales as opposed to that "wonderment" of what the game is really all about, what the hype by all the other forumers or players is all about, with a demo you know, without it you have "wonderment" and thus for some people "interest" and thus go out and buy it even if it does suck to you later on. lol

Skeptics are rarely going to buy the game anyway, many just want a free game of some sort and use statements like "I won't buy the game if it doesn't have a demo", well, more than likely they weren't going to buy it anyway, since they are skeptics. Of course they have many ways of defending that they are not skeptics or just freeloaders and will attempt to sound righteous and such to attempt to get the demo anyway and anyhow, and still never buy the full retail version.

Then there are those like you who actually do prefer a demo, but, I feel there is enough information on the net and magazines to determine if a game is worth buying or not, even without a demo. I bought and played games for years, decades even without demos, so for me they are not a requirement. I can gather quite enough information on my own without playing the game, from other sources.

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 4
RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 9:49:16 PM   
33Vyper


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I agree with ya on that one. Sometimes you get a demo....then play it for a bit...decide that well the game is not really worth the full investment. Usually however these games suck to begin with, or have a very weak subject matter.

I strongly believe in game demos. I think that they need to be designed properly though, to show off enough to keep you interested but keep enough held back to keep you wanting to buy the whole product. I also like game demos because they often show if the game will be stable on your operating platform. It just a basic fact that nobody's computer is the same as anyone else's. We all have different software..bugs...worms...antivirus crap...firewalls...browsers... ram types etc....etc...etc.. video cards....god I could go on for hours. A demo gives you a bit of an idea what it will look and feel like.

I can honestly say that demos have kept me from buying some absolute crap games and I thank their publishers for having a demo to save me the 40$. To Matrix I say this....make a small 'trial' scenario ...only needs to be a couple of turns long just to let those that are hesitating to taste this new product. You all seem quite big on it right now and quite proud of the new baby. Back it up with a demo

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RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 11:27:28 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Make a demo where you can play 1 or 2 turns and thats it. Just enough to fight a few battles, but no where near enough to satisfy peoples desire to play the game.

As for demos causing people to not buy games that are crap. Thats the WHOLE idea of a demo. Show the people what you have. If you created a bad game, thats a good reason not to make a demo. In fact a LOT of people assume a game is crap if it DOESNT have a demo.

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RE: Demo? - 3/18/2005 11:48:29 PM   
Pippin


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There has been one time when I didn't buy a game because the demo was poor, (Mafia). I then got the whole package from a friend, and it played much better. So let that be a lesson, if your demo is crap, don't release it, LOL.



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RE: Demo? - 3/19/2005 10:44:16 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Make a demo where you can play 1 or 2 turns and thats it. Just enough to fight a few battles, but no where near enough to satisfy peoples desire to play the game.

As for demos causing people to not buy games that are crap. Thats the WHOLE idea of a demo. Show the people what you have. If you created a bad game, thats a good reason not to make a demo. In fact a LOT of people assume a game is crap if it DOESNT have a demo.


Not necessarily the case...sometime a demo is fine...it's simply the user has the lack of knowledge/drive/ability to get the idea of the game (i've said this before and I'll say it again...I didn't buy AA:RDOA because I tried the demo (without reading the info) and though "What a load of *stuff*)...so a demo will only satisfy those who really want to read the info that comes with it and "seriously" give it a go....

Demos can damage as well as promote sales....and that applies to crap demos being released to dedicated gamers or good demos being released to non-dedicated gamers.

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Post #: 8
RE: Demo? - 3/20/2005 1:34:51 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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They can do like some games have in the past. Release the tutorials as a demo.

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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 1:57:33 PM   
Darken

 

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quote:

MButtazoni posted: no demo is planned at this time


I like demos for several reasons

1) you can test the games mechanic and whether you like the controls

2) you can test whether the game runs on your computer.

Don't underestimate point 2. I once bought a gamemagazin with an older game (3d-shooter) and it didn't run on my computer (1,5 GHz Athlon, 1 GB RAM, Geforce 5200 Graphic with 64 MB, Win 98 SE / Win 2K SP4). As the game was a bonus to the game magazine I had no real problem with the not-running-game.

To avoid such problems with newly published games I want to test with a demo. Of course it can happen that I don't buy a newly published game at once (f.e. Deus Ex 2 as it didn't run on my old graphic card - Geforce 2 MX 400).

But I also have bought more than one new published game only because of the well done demo (f.e. Deus Ex 1, Strategic Command) and in no single case I got unhappy with the game itself.

I don't say I won't buy newly published games without testing a demo first but then I usually wait until someone I know buys the game so I can take a look on it. Especially if I still have no single game of the developers.

If you don't want to publish a true demo of WaW you at least should publish the two tutorials to give players the chance to test the controls and whether the game runs or not. If your game is as good as most postings in the forums tell you only can win.

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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 2:04:16 PM   
ravinhood


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Did you try or see the RTW demo? It hardly gave a good example of the entire game. And a very little one of the battles themselves. Some demos aren't very good period.

I'm kind of like some of the above, a demo should allow a player to play a certain amount of turns of the entire game, so they can see the campaign portion as well as the combat portion and learn all the basic UI features.

These "flash demos" though like Matrixgames uses in some cases don't do it for me though, watching a movie and hands on are two different things. If you're going to give me a demo, give ME the demo, don't give me a demonstration movie. heh But, really as I said before I don't really require a demo and since they are soooooo huge these days for the most part I don't get any anyway. 300mb+ downloads on dialup just don't do it for me. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 3/21/2005 2:08:41 PM >

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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 4:23:32 PM   
Darken

 

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quote:

Ravinhood posted: Did you try or see the RTW demo? It hardly gave a good example of the entire game. And a very little one of the battles themselves. Some demos aren't very good period.


Sorry, but what is RTW ???

You are right, some demos are really bad.

In case of Matrix Games WaW of course I would prefer a real demo with f.e. 4-6 turns I can play. But at least I want to get the two tutorials to take a look at the controls and whether the game runs without problems on my hardware/software.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 12
RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 5:15:00 PM   
ravinhood


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quote:

Sorry, but what is RTW ???


Heh, if you don't know what RTW is, it's better off you didn't know at all. ;) But, I'm sure someone will tell you anyways. lol I wasn't impressed with it.

(in reply to Darken)
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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 5:58:12 PM   
mavraam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Did you try or see the RTW demo? It hardly gave a good example of the entire game. And a very little one of the battles themselves. Some demos aren't very good period.

I'm kind of like some of the above, a demo should allow a player to play a certain amount of turns of the entire game, so they can see the campaign portion as well as the combat portion and learn all the basic UI features.

These "flash demos" though like Matrixgames uses in some cases don't do it for me though, watching a movie and hands on are two different things. If you're going to give me a demo, give ME the demo, don't give me a demonstration movie. heh But, really as I said before I don't really require a demo and since they are soooooo huge these days for the most part I don't get any anyway. 300mb+ downloads on dialup just don't do it for me. ;)



Good point on RTW! That was possibly the worst demo EVER. It didn't have any of the strategic play which to me is just as fun and intriguing as the battles themselves. Instead, they just plop you down in the middle of a battle and its very hard to know what's going on.

After playing the demo, I almost didn't buy the game!

A friend talked me into it and I absolutely loved it. Except that the AI sucked so much that I started having to use self imposed rules (like no forts, no retraining experienced units, etc.) to make it a challenge which got old quick.

I can understand why some people would want a demo of GGWAW because of the steep hardware requirements. OTOH, I think it would be tough to release a scaled down version of the game that would allow you to see if it runs on your system, be interesting to play, but still make you want the whole game. Maybe the 1-2 turn thing would work but I'd be worried that someone might find a way to crack that.

My attitide towards WAW is this: If I buy it and it won't run on my machine, its time to get a new machine!

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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 7:51:43 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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There was a demo for strategic command, and it IS the reason I bought that game.

Its pretty simple to most people. "Is the game good? Then you will have no problem releasing a demo to prove it? You wont release a demo? You musty be afraid for people to see the game before they buy."

THATS the way most people see it.

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RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 10:50:05 PM   
ratprince


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Scott -

While it is understandable your desire for a demo, it is probably better not to speak for "most" people. If "you" like demos, that is great! However, before prosetelyzing that all of the masses require a demo before buying a game....I would suggest not.

If you are this active in the forum for GGWaW and this anxious about getting a demo...you're probably going to buy the game regardless..... so your just discussing a moot point anyway

Wait for it....buy the game....support Matrix.....repeat.

Later

Mike

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Post #: 16
RE: Demo? - 3/21/2005 11:04:35 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Oh, I am buying the game. I even decided to go with retail, since Matrix is hoping to do well there. I am saying a demo will get more people to buy the game, if it is a good game. More people buying=more people to play against, which is good for all of us.

And trust me, I have played wargames AND video games of all sorts for many years. I have spent my fair share of time reading forums before and after games were released. A demo is something I can speak for the majority on, becasue it is a fact the majority of people like to play a demo before they buy. Common sense should tell you that. Many will buy the game regardless, but there are also some out there that will not buy it unless they know they will like it. Not everyone can throw $40 around on something they MIGHT like.

The point can be made that they can wait for reviews, or for a friend to tell them how it is, but remember also, many dont trust reviews. Many games got great reviews that I thought were horrible, while many games have received horrible reviews that I found to be good. Also, not everyone has a friend that will get this game.

Besides we all know this game is going to be good. A demo can only help make more sales, or keep people who shouldnt get it to begin with, from getting it and giving it a bad name because they dont understand how to play it, and then tell their friends that it isnt a good game.

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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 1:51:55 AM   
ratprince


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Ok.....

Was just making the point that you cannot speak for "most people" without being incorrect. You are welcome to your own ideas/opinions/ideologies but they are simply your own....that's all.

Since I am in the "most people" encompassing crowd you admonish, I will speak out. I do not desire, nor need a demo. There....does that break the "most people" theme?

later


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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 1:58:05 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Do you have any doubts at all about buying this game? I doubt you do, like me you probably plan on getting it day 1. But, if you were not sure if you were going to like the game, would you not like to have a demo to get an idea of whether or not its your kind of game?

I agee, when saying most people, I am not talking about the ones that are planning on getting this game, in fact, MOST people dont even play PC games. MOST people(of those that do play PC games) are not going to get this game, demo or not. But I do think a lot more would get it if there was a demo. And we all win in that case.

EDIT- well that was nice and confusing. Most people is a relative turn. Most people that frequent this forum dont need a demo, but Matrix is hoping a lot more people than those that visit this forum are going to buy the game. So, those "most people" I believe would like to see a demo.

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 3/22/2005 2:07:42 AM >

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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 2:09:29 AM   
ratprince


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Mr. War;

My initial (innocuous) post was to point out the improper usage of your all encompassing word "most." While you may feel that your usage is in fact accurate, without statistical data to back it up, the word "most" is highly subjective and wide open to refute. You would be better suited to make a clarifying statement such as "5 out of 10 of my gaming friends would not buy without a demo." Now that would be a relatively good use of statistics (albeit suspect).

Your semantics and word choice were all that I was pointing out. Making broad, sweeping declaratives without basis in fact or analysis will always get you in trouble..... capiche?

later

Prof. McMann

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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 3:34:07 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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As I said the word "most" is relevant. You know whom most people refers to, in this case, is those that might be interested in buying this game.

Statistical data is not needed to know that most people would like to have a demo of a game before they decide to buy it. That takes the reasoning skills of a goat to figure out.


Most people, that are interested in getting the game, would like to see a demo. Thats a fact.

Most people could care less about this game, or a demo for it, but I think you knew what I meant.


< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 3/22/2005 3:52:28 AM >

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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 4:15:08 AM   
ratprince


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Mr. War;

I am glad that there is still a place to have a meaningful conversation in the world without being called a goat. Shewww...I thought I was back in grammar school for a minute there!

I am also glad that you have chosen to end debating with me about your use of the word "most." It is great to see that your cool, calm, mature persona has won through.

If you need any other help with semantics, syntax or statistical analysis, I am always available!

Have a great day!

Mike

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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 4:43:14 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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LOL, I didnt call you a goat, I simply satated the level of reasoning necessary to understand that anyone who is thinking about buying a game, would want a demo to help with that decision.

Now if you feel you lack the reasoning skills necessary to understand that concept, then I wouldnt blame me, for I had nothing to do with your education.

However, if you fail to understand that the word most is usually used in context, which most people have no problems grasping, then you might want to look into further education. "Most" does not always refer to EVERYONE in the world. In fact the word "most" is rarely ever used in a global capacity. It is usually used in a manner relative to the conversation.

"Most people like broadband internet."
Most people understand that this does not mean that most people in the world like broadband, but rather that it means most people who use the internet, prefer broadband. Its not a hard concept to grasp, and I really think you fully understand. I just think you wanted to be a jerk.

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 3/22/2005 4:48:34 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 4:48:15 AM   
ravinhood


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Heh, let's change the context some.

MOST people would rather be given a million dollars than to buy GGWAW, now, do I really need any statistical documents to back this up? hehe

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Post #: 24
RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 7:19:53 AM   
Pippin


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quote:

There has been one time when I didn't buy a game because the demo was poor, (Mafia). I then got the whole package from a friend, and it played much better. So let that be a lesson, if your demo is crap, don't release it, LOL.


I lied. One other case has just sprung to mind. After downloading the new Axis & Allies demo by Atari, I knew I was not going to be a sucker for it. The thing went instantly into my trash bin without a second thought.



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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 8:24:31 AM   
Fred98


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If a demo is not possible, then a "movie" would be usefull.

It would need to demonstrate the features of the game and the User Interface.



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RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 10:40:25 AM   
CheopisIV


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All this talk of Demos, goats, majority thinking, blah blah, incited me to post.....I too have decided to not buy a game based on a demo, I also have purchased games based on the demo. I am one who hates wasting my coin on games that don't deliver, especially with the stores now imposing a "no return or refund if packaging is opened" policy on games. I can totally understand this anti-piracy policy, but still refuse to buy a game without giving it a test run as I hate wasting money. If the game warrants me firing it up for a second go, I'll buy it, otherwise toss my "demo" and never return. A few games I've purchased due to testing first are NWN (and both expansions), Black and White, GuildWars (still beta, but purchased), Morrowind, Freedom Force, and on and on; but the sheer number of garbage games I havn't purchased due to poor game mechanics, playability, incessant bugs, or any other number of problems despite rave reviews over the past year alone dwarfs my purchased list for the past 5 years. Im selfish, and I believe that the gaming developers owe me quality merchandise for my money, especially with being an aspiring game programmer, and especially with the junk I've seen growing over the past years. All that being said, I'm sure I'll take another "leap of faith" on this game and buy it based solely on these forums and fanbase, and the obvious respect people have for the games from this developer. I am in desperate need of a replacement for my old Micropose Axis and Allies : Iron Blitz, which btw was the reason i built my first PC.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 27
RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 12:59:17 PM   
ratprince


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Really! Lets change the subject already...

I understand you have given up debating the issue with me Scott, so lets move on to something we can discuss more rationally than these vague, nonsensical ideas of "most" people and such.

A demo is just not in the cards. Matrix has made this clear. Why continue the banter of a dead idea? Why not devote more time and energy to developing interpersoanl skills and polite, mannered decorum on these forums? That would be time well spent for many a folk.

Always here to help Scott.

Have a great day!

Later

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Post #: 28
RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 5:14:22 PM   
Pippin


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quote:

I am in desperate need of a replacement for my old Micropose Axis and Allies : Iron Blitz,


I believe it was Hasbro, not Microprose who should get credit for BOTCHING up the Iron Blitz project. That game was such a joke in the community that even Larry refuses to have a section for it on his forum. Some people think the worst disaster in the gaming industry was the E.T. scam Atari pulled back in the 80's. But I think Hasbro deserves to take the cake on this one.





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Post #: 29
RE: Demo? - 3/22/2005 5:29:16 PM   
Becket


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Some people think the worst disaster in the gaming industry was the E.T. scam Atari pulled back in the 80's...


Hey! You could find M&Ms!

hee. God, that game is outstanding for sucking in an era of suckiness.

< Message edited by Becket -- 3/22/2005 5:33:33 PM >


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