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Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 3:08:09 AM   
randell765

 

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Bear with me, some of these questions may have been asked, so don't crush me here, as I am new to these forums but this game looks awesome.

1) It's a turn for 3 months of gameplay? Is that 1 turn by Russia/Germany? Or a turn by all Axis and all Allies?

2) Is there any way to turn off the timetable mode? In other words, not be restricted by 28(roughly) rounds/turns?

3) I read IGN's review. While they said this game was excellent, I believe they said a big flaw? of the game is that it doesn't tell you who has moved for that round? i will have to double check but I believe they mention something to the effect that you have to keep checking each terrritory or unit to see what has moved or action points or moved for combat without telling you? Is any of this true? If so are there any plans to fix it?

Thanks for the help. :)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 3:38:22 AM   
Becket


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Welcome!

1. I do not completely understand your question. The time scale is three months per turn. Each player gets a movement and production phase during a turn. So, during the Spring 40 turn, for example, German gets a move & production phase, then Japan gets a move and production phase, then the Soviets, then the Chinese, then the US, then we go back to the Germans for Summer 1940. People will refer to their own phases as a "turn".

2. Yes. There is an option to turn the end date off. There is also an option to require the winning side to totally conquer all territory held by the opposing side.

3. IGN's complaint was that they wanted better notifications for certain movement-related triggers (like leaving Manchuria too lightly garrisoned, thus triggering Soviet entry to the war). I disagree with them on this (there's a big red icon in Manchuria if you do that....). You can always see what happens during other player's turns. If you're just playing through an AI game, you'll be able to watch happen in real time, and use the VCR to rewind and watch it all again. If you're playing PBEM, you use the VCR to watch it all happen. But you absolutely see who moves what where, etc. If you've played Shogun or Medieval, it's similar to watching the AI move its units around (just better ).

Feel free to ask any other questions.

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"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 4:03:28 AM   
ravinhood


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quote:

If you've played Shogun or Medieval, it's similar to watching the AI move its units around (just better ).


Now wait just a minute here. I have some battle movies saved from MTW of epic battles nothing could ever surpass, from thinking i had total victory, to fears of total loss as I ran for the border, only to have my reinforements of 16 cavalry come in and save the day. ;)

I wouldn't call being able to watch the AI or someone else move their pieces around the map "better". ;)

(in reply to Becket)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 4:30:01 AM   
Becket


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I was referring the strategic map component of Shogun/Medieval, not the battle resolution game grafted on top of it.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 6:53:29 AM   
ravinhood


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Ahhh ok then, I forgive you. ;)

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 9:29:31 PM   
mavraam


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I thought another issue that IGN had (and maybe I misunderstood) was that there was no map option to show just the units that could still move. In otherwords, you can change the map to only show supply I think, and they wanted to make it so it would only display units that could still move.

I could see how this would be helpfull to make sure you hadn't left any work undone. OTOH, since you can just hover over a territory and see what's moved, its probably no biggie.


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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 9:59:24 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mavraam

I thought another issue that IGN had (and maybe I misunderstood) was that there was no map option to show just the units that could still move. In otherwords, you can change the map to only show supply I think, and they wanted to make it so it would only display units that could still move.


It is true that there is no option to show only the unmoved units, but it is also true that in almost a year since the beta test started (gee, already a year?!?) I never really missed that option.

Perhaps, being UV/WITP veteran, and being used to handling 1000s of units, I didn't even need it

O.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/18/2005 11:33:44 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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But the game is retail, meaning normal people are going to be playing it, and not just wargame vets. THEY NEED a way to know what they have and have not moved.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 1:17:41 AM   
Warfare1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

But the game is retail, meaning normal people are going to be playing it, and not just wargame vets. THEY NEED a way to know what they have and have not moved.


I have to agree with this - very annoying having dozens of pieces on the map, you take a break, come back to the computer, and forget what units have/haven't moved.

A player should be able to just look at the map and tell from a glance what units he needs to move...

This is not rocket science...

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 1:20:24 AM   
Becket


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Guys - this is not really an issue, as you'll see when you play the game.

However, if you'd like to delay the game for an unneeded feature, lemme give you Joel's email....

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Post #: 10
RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 1:24:02 AM   
Joel Billings


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Points well taken. Keep in mind that, unlike in almost every other game, moving in GGWaW is not free. Often not moving is best because it saves supplies. Every time you move something, especially your fleets that are in my opinion the easiest to lose track of, you are sucking supplies. I realize this doesn't elminate the desire to have a way to see who hasn't moved, but I wanted to point out that it's not as bad as you might think. I think you'll really find this to be not the issue you think it is once you are playing, but I can't argue that for some people it wouldn't be a nice feature to have.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 1:33:55 AM   
Warfare1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Points well taken. Keep in mind that, unlike in almost every other game, moving in GGWaW is not free. Often not moving is best because it saves supplies. Every time you move something, especially your fleets that are in my opinion the easiest to lose track of, you are sucking supplies. I realize this doesn't elminate the desire to have a way to see who hasn't moved, but I wanted to point out that it's not as bad as you might think. I think you'll really find this to be not the issue you think it is once you are playing, but I can't argue that for some people it wouldn't be a nice feature to have.


Hi

Most of the wargamers here probably won't have a problem. However, since this game is going retail, I am sure lots of teenagers and others might like this feature.

It helps on the eyes and eases gameplay...

Perhaps it might be in a future patch?

A moved unit might look a bit darker than unmoved units?


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RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 1:38:55 AM   
Warfare1


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I'm also wondering:

Once all the kinks have been worked out of this game, would Matrix ever consider porting WaW to console?

WAW would effectively replace Axis & Allies as THE WWII strategy game, and I am sure lots of people would enjoy playing against someone else on their big TV screens...

I could see this game as being a real cash cow for Matrix; meaning, if they make lots of money, then they will have the time and funds necessary to develop other in-depth wargames...

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/19/2005 8:37:27 PM   
Anofalye

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1




Perhaps it might be in a future patch?

A moved unit might look a bit darker than unmoved units?




Or a slightly different graphic like in Medieval since it was always compare to it, but color is so much more simple it would take no time, yet if the team already have the others graphics of not keeped units, why not use them if they are still decents?

(in reply to Warfare1)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 1:24:52 AM   
Becket


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You'd have to mouse over a province to see all the units, though. If you mouse over a province, you can already see the indicator of which units have moved. (This is why I say there is nothing to fix.)

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 3:23:49 AM   
SeaMonkey

 

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Well then all we need to do is hit the "N" key and cycle through the next province under our control.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 3:55:05 AM   
Paul Vebber


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I was concerned about this, but I have to say that its really been a non-issue in the games I've played. Maybe its my "boardgame" roots, combined withthe "move into the enemy's area" to attack, with the usual "counter density" 5-20 units in an area, its not really paractical to have some kind of indicator as to which have moved and which haven't in a particular stack. Perhaps if ALL the unit in an area have moved, then some idication might be warranted, but the "mouse over shows the stack" feature has not had me yearning for other indications.

The example below shows a large stack that the mouse "hovers" over - the contents and status of each is laid out. You can see from teh "28" on the map there is a "stack" of 28 units int eh Western Germany area. The 8 is teh remaining rail capacity. YOu can see the German heavy bombers have little supply barrels (they have been supplied this turn" and a green "tactical movement arrow" meaning they have flown a tactical mission (using supply - thus this and teh supply bareels always appear together. The bombers have also been in their one combat this turn as indicted by the crosshairs withthe green checkmark.






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< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 3/20/2005 4:04:15 AM >

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 3:56:11 AM   
Warfare1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Becket

You'd have to mouse over a province to see all the units, though. If you mouse over a province, you can already see the indicator of which units have moved. (This is why I say there is nothing to fix.)


Not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you saying a player would have to pass the mouse over every unit in a province to see if they have moved?

What is the "indicator" that shows the units have moved?

(in reply to Becket)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 4:06:06 AM   
Paul Vebber


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Assuming I stoped and saved and had opened teh game at the point above, I just hover teh mouse over each "stack" to remeind myself what happend.

NOrway was taken by a paratroop aassult (using one of the 2 heavy bombers in W. Germany. THe other bombarded to hopefully ensure the paratroops landed safely. You can see the Paratroop used strategic movement (teh blue arrow vice green) - in this case special paratroop movement, it was shot at ( teh crosshaor with red checkmark in the middle of its icon, and shot (the crosshair with green arrow. IT shows teh resource and rail in orway were destroyed in the attack (it costs 5 supplys to fix each to "damaged" (an orange "blast" and 5 more to fix to normal (a green dot).






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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 4:20:34 AM   
Paul Vebber


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There are only about 10 areas to mouse around, and each gives you the exact staus of the units there, I'm not sure how you would put that info for all the units in each area (especially the small ones). Where there are unresolved battles you will see the "double roundel" as in Western France. Hovering the mouse over that will reveal teh contents, and give you an estimate of attacker and defender losses and the chance of causing the enemy to retreat.

In this case teh PAnzerKorps have red arrows, indicating they used extended movement (more than one area - using extra supply) and the tac bomber used regular movement (they can fly to their range - 2 areas in this case for their 1 supply) none of the french units have been attacked yet. IF they had been attacked in a previous battel in teh area (you can attack in a big stack, or a series of attacks - it can be useful against small stacks to send a "probing froce" in first to get then engaged, (lowering their evasion rating by 1) and then hitting them with teh main body of your attack. IF you out number the enemy this is a crucial tactic to maximize "kills" by increasing your hit chance. For example if you attack with 5 dice, agaisnt a Panzer Korps with evasion 8 (they have durability 3) you only have a 6% chane to get a hit, but if you lower its evasion to 7 by an air or probing attack, your chance of hitting goes up to just over 22% - nearly 4 times higher. IF you can attack it out of supply goes down another 1 and goes up to just over 50%. So you can increase your hit chance by nearly 10 times if you plan your attacks right.

You can see a second set of unit "boxes" above the battle - if you click on one of those the movement path the unit used to get there will appear, in this case becasue the PanzerKorps revealed teh Allied fleets off teh coast, it is not "undoable" as the red Xs indicate. and teh usually red double "undo arrow" at teh bottom of the movement bar would not be greyed out. You can either click on individual arrows to undo to teh previous area, or use the undo whoel move button.





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< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 3/20/2005 4:26:40 AM >

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 5:50:15 AM   
randell765

 

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Don't get me wrong, this game looks to be fantastic in every aspect, but I'm just wondering. Isn't that 1-2 extra steps to see what unit has moved? Wouldn't it have been easier to just have a unit "shaded" after a movement, so that way when you look at the screen you know immediately what has moved and what hasn't?

A lot of people will probably disagree with me on this, but if a patch is ever introduced(or needed), I hope they put this option in.

(in reply to randell765)
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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 6:02:32 AM   
Paul Vebber


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I don't see how that is possile given that the number of units in the area is all that is indicated? I suppose you could put the number of units that moved/slant number that has not moved - but that is not much info. since all you have to do to see the "little boxes" is move the mouse over the stack (you don't even have to click). I can only say it becomes 2nd nature to just move teh mouse around and see what's what. Maybe "half a step", certainly not 2...

I really don't see this being an issue once you play a game or two.

What exactly is "the option you would like to see"? SInce you can have units that have and have not moved in a stack, I'm not sure what "Shading" would do, except in the case where all the units in an area had moved? IT doesn;t help in cases where you have a large stack with units that have moves and some that haven't.

< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 3/20/2005 6:10:21 AM >

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 6:23:38 AM   
ravinhood


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Hey Paul does this game have a "next unit" cycle function say like TOAW or such other games where you press "N" or the < > keys? If that's there, there's no need for all that other stuff, one can just use the cycle units feature to find the ones that haven't moved then. We did this easily in the 80's with all wargames pretty much, I didn't see it as a hassle, it's a turn based games for god-sake it's not REAL TIME like you have to be in a hurry to make your moves.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/20/2005 7:56:17 AM   
Paul Vebber


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The way the game works, you start a turn and you look at the half dozen or so areas that are adjacent to enemy held areas. Except for tanks, ground units only move 1 area to get into combat, so in the previous turn, you had to "set up" the units you want to attack with. Tanks can move two, but typically you want them to exploit into enemy held areas to surround other areas, rather than move up from behind.

I think a lot of you are thinking of this interms of games like TAOW and the SSG games where you move units considerable distances to set up attacks. In this game you have to "set up your attacks" teh turn before, so they can move into the enemy held areas in your next turn. So a lot of these "who did I move" problems just don;t occur. You will have deployed your striking forces into the areas you want to attack from using strategic movement teh previos turn. You get your turn back and you see how they weathered enemy counterattacks. Then you see what sort of attacks you can strike ot of your held areas with.

Once you move tactically into enemy areas, you then use strategic movement to set up for the next turns attacks (or to hopefully hold in the face of enemy attacks)

Naval action can involve striking out over several areas, but you typically only have a few fleets and will have had to set up your Sea Lines of Communication so that you either "hit and run" or you have a supply conduit. But since naval units only move tactically, you need supply lined up.

You just don't think in terms of "moving units around" you assemble "Armies" (ie stacks) that you send against other areas. SOmetimes you strike out of an area into multiple others, but in that case you are constatnly mousing over teh area pretty much automatically and can see what has moved and what hasn't.

IT takes a couple games to get used to - but whne you stop thinking about units in typical wargame terms and more like teh old "Hitlers war" game where you had a sheet where you assigned "factors" to each of the maybe dozen counters that appeared on the board, and the goal was not "moving the factors around" but assembling an appropriately balanced force that you sent on a "campaign".

If you think interms of "assembling an rmy to do a certain mission" you find that you see units as resources that you rail around, then strike with in teh next turn, and then backfill for teh next round.

The other thing that is not getting across is teh natur of strategic movement.

When you move strategically (by rail or transport fleet) - your units don't have "movement" - the areas have a transport capcity. Each supply point uses 1, each non-armor unit 5, armor 10 and factories 30 (and get damaged in the process). This means that in that "strategic movement" portion of your turn (you can do it anytime so often you move from one area to attack, and then backfill using strategic movement before you go on to the next attack) you can move a unit as many times as you want, but once all the transport capacity in an area is used up, then you can;t move any units into, out of, or through using strategic movement.

THe thing you watch here is that seond number in the area (the first is number of untis - the second is remaining transport capacity) You don;t care if a unit has moved or not - you can keep moving it as much as you have the capacity to do.

You watch the transport numbers like a hawk, not which units move or how much they move. Sea Transports get "locked" and can't move once they use their capacity, but youcan tell that by inspection by noting if teh transport number has been lowered.

Hopefully that helps get across why individual unit movement and figureing out who has moved and who hasn't just doesn't come up as an issue very often. When it does you typically don;t want to know who moved and who didn't, but which units used a given regions transport capcity and for that I don;t know how you would do it, other than hover the mouse over stacks and look for who had a blue "strategic movement arrow and clik on them to see the route they took.

< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 3/20/2005 8:09:36 AM >

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/21/2005 2:33:16 AM   
Warfare1


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Paul:

I see what you mean about unit stacks.

Your explanations, plus the screenies, have been very helpful.

This game has far more depth than I had imagined.

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RE: Questions on this game - 3/21/2005 6:19:34 PM   
mavraam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

Paul:

I see what you mean about unit stacks.

Your explanations, plus the screenies, have been very helpful.

This game has far more depth than I had imagined.


You, me and everyone else who ever played A&A!


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RE: Questions on this game - 3/21/2005 6:24:34 PM   
Barthheart


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You guys are slowly coming around! A&A is to GGWAW as checkers is to chess!

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