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Reasons To Buy Retail!

 
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Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 5:45:56 AM   
IceCreamSolider

 

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I am going to make every effort to buy this title at the Retail level - for good reason!

Mostly it will help Matrix make a splash at the Retail level - something that can only help Matrix and thus help us Wargamers have more games to look forward to from Matrix for years ...

Also, you get a printed manual ...

EB & Etc. - here I come :)

ics

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 5:59:28 AM   
wdirons

 

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Since Matrix makes a better margin on digital download I plan to buy the game that way. Why give the middle man all the money? I did consider buying it retail for the manual.

I do wonder, if you buy the game retail will it require you to insert the CD into the drive to play?

(in reply to IceCreamSolider)
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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 6:33:32 AM   
Joel Billings


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In the end, we don't really care how you buy it. We're just happy if you buy it somehow. No, the CD version will not require the CD to be in the drive.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 6:46:57 AM   
IceCreamSolider

 

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Good point about the "margins" - I do like the "instant gratification" of DD too :)

So many games - so little time ...

ics


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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 8:04:32 AM   
Rubblestone

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

In the end, we don't really care how you buy it. We're just happy if you buy it somehow. No, the CD version will not require the CD to be in the drive.


Glad to here you dont need the CD in the drive, that would just of been a pain in the ass... I will definantly buy it retail mainly for the manual, but here is hoping that it has good sales which would lead retailors into thinking that the wargaming market is returning thus making more choices in the future

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 8:12:24 AM   
ravinhood


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If Matrixgames will pay for me a cable connection for a month, I'll gladly buy the direct download as well as the boxed version. How's that Matrixgames? ;)

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 12:44:57 PM   
GreenDestiny


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OKI値l probably get flamed for this one, so I値l hide it in this thread. I知 assuming that the WAW is going to cost the same amount for DD and retail. My question is why?

BTW... I値l probably get this one at retail for the manual, unless DD is cheaper. I see no reason not to. And most likely this will be a game in which you値l need a manual in your hands while playing it anyways. Also I think Matrix is doing just fine. As I'm now starting to see others going to digital download.



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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 2:12:18 PM   
paullus99


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In economics, its called "opportunity cost." How much are you willing to pay for something - depending on the circumstances. For some, the amount for DD is just fine, while others will find the need to purchase it from a store.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 2:45:21 PM   
coralsaw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

OK…I’ll probably get flamed for this one, so I’ll hide it in this thread. I’m assuming that the WAW is going to cost the same amount for DD and retail. My question is why?



Possible answers:

  • Matrix can't/won't undercut their retail channel for obvious reasons
  • Target pricing: you pay as much as we think you can afford
  • Value pricing: you pay as much as we think you value the product
  • The retail channel is not available to you so you have no choice (eg. uncovered countries)


In any case, if it's a good game, the sale is all that matters. We should trust that Matrix has done their best to maximize the revenue inflows with their pricing.

/coralsaw


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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 5:08:21 PM   
Arkady


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Here, in Czech Rep., it will be no retail version....my only choice is DD

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 5:27:26 PM   
Becket


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To be clear: there will be European retail distribution (according to the various sticky posts on this forum). How long that delay will be is not yet known.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 7:11:23 PM   
TheHellPatrol


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As a loyal Matrix supporter i am beginning to understand the frustration concerning WAW release which brings up the question in my mind: Reasons "NOT" to buy retail. As many of you know i am not new here and keep very(too much) up to date with Matrix products in development. We are all familiar with the incorrect release dates on every site carrying the game and i know that it's a possibility that they keep advancing the date a little at a time to keep potential sales interest, but yesterday i had an experience that shed a little light on this from the outsiders point of view.
I went to the mall to do some spring break shopping for the kids and decided to stop by EB to say hello (been awhile) and i inquired about what new releases for PC and XBOX that had come in their morning shipment. After finding some cool products to keep us entertained for the week off i inquired about WAW as i played dumb, it turns out that the shipment didn't make it but it will be in tommorow(today)...hmmm...should i go back to the mall today and get "my" copy before anyone else? If i didn't know what i know and have my skewed vision of our educationally deprived society i would be pretty pissed when i went there today to find out "it's, ummm, not in the system". An outsider is going to want to vent his frustrations at someone and from my experience it is always easier for the people at the point of sale to blame the developer/distributor.
Maybe this is a point to discuss at the next retail sales marketing conference, just my 2 cents.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 8:33:20 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


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I wont go for a european retail version. reason's simple : I dont want to wait till it is translated in german. I dont need a localized version. However, I am a fan of printed manuals.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/17/2005 9:03:50 PM   
Paul Vebber


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quote:

Maybe this is a point to discuss at the next retail sales marketing conference, just my 2 cents.


See the Gamespy article link it he "I told you so" thread...Many think retail is seriously broken in general.

The question is do you therefore ignore it, or "pulse" it every so often and see if an occasional presence there can generate some buzz...

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/596/596734p1.html?fromint=1

The problem is an industry wide one, that is MUCH more serious for producers of 6M$ X-box titles. We have to grin and bear it, and be glad we can 'Visit, but don't have to live there"...

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)
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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 3:48:24 AM   
ravinhood


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The one thing about direct sales, you guys still have to remember, the whole world doesn't own a computer or have an internet connection, but, most every city has a Walmarts. ;) Oh and I forgot, the internet connection is not totally "broadband" either. ;)

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 4:01:06 AM   
Kampferz臧n

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The one thing about direct sales, you guys still have to remember, the whole world doesn't own a computer or have an internet connection, but, most every city has a Walmarts.


Even with a Wal-Mart in their city, it might be kind of difficult to play a computer game without a computer.

Sorry I had to say it.

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 4:06:27 AM   
ravinhood


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quote:

Even with a Wal-Mart in their city, it might be kind of difficult to play a computer game without a computer.


Very profound, wish I had thought of that. ;) I'm going to buy it retail though just to support retail since that is "my preferred" method of purchase of games. I like to hold the box, and "think about my purchase". Online buying is so unpersonal. I've spent hours sometimes talking to the guys at EB games, buying online is a cold and silent experience.
Buying online feels like the company is saying to me, "just buy the damn game, we have no time for idle chat".

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 5:20:27 AM   
Kampferz臧n

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'm going to buy it retail though just to support retail since that is "my preferred" method of purchase of games. I like to hold the box, and "think about my purchase". Online buying is so unpersonal. I've spent hours sometimes talking to the guys at EB games, buying online is a cold and silent experience.
Buying online feels like the company is saying to me, "just buy the damn game, we have no time for idle chat".


Having done the local Best Buy/EB Games/CompUSA/etc. etc. bit in my area many a time I can say safely I'll be ordering this one online through an online retailer and having it delivered like I do with 99% of the games I buy.

This suits me fine as I'm more in a store to buy than to chat, but that's just me.

(in reply to ravinhood)
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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 6:52:04 AM   
ravinhood


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quote:

This suits me fine as I'm more in a store to buy than to chat, but that's just me.


See that's another of my points, computers are making some people more and more "anti-social", I can only imagine what the world will be like in another 100 years, I guess most people won't step out of their cubicles, there will be robots to do all the work and no need for social interaction with monitors and electronic devices that will allow people to get all the physical activity they need right in front of the computer. Seems like I seen a movie like that once, just a bunch of heads in boxes. ;)

(in reply to Kampferz臧n)
Post #: 19
RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 7:09:19 AM   
Kampferz臧n

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

See that's another of my points, computers are making some people more and more "anti-social", I can only imagine what the world will be like in another 100 years, I guess most people won't step out of their cubicles, there will be robots to do all the work and no need for social interaction with monitors and electronic devices that will allow people to get all the physical activity they need right in front of the computer. Seems like I seen a movie like that once, just a bunch of heads in boxes. ;)


I would like to have a grocery store, barber shop, etc. etc. where you know the people and can sit down and talk. Don't have that luxury but...

In general when I go to a store like EB Games, Walmart, CompUSA; one of the super huge retail stores, I want to get in, make my purchase and get out. It's not, in my view, a social environment like Floyd the local Barber, if you know what I mean.

(in reply to ravinhood)
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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 9:10:56 AM   
Arkady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The one thing about direct sales, you guys still have to remember, the whole world doesn't own a computer or have an internet connection, but, most every city has a Walmarts. ;) Oh and I forgot, the internet connection is not totally "broadband" either. ;)


and you must remember that not everyone live in U.S.
Nearest Walmart is several hundreds or thousands kilometers away

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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 3:01:27 PM   
ravinhood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arkady

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The one thing about direct sales, you guys still have to remember, the whole world doesn't own a computer or have an internet connection, but, most every city has a Walmarts. ;) Oh and I forgot, the internet connection is not totally "broadband" either. ;)


and you must remember that not everyone live in U.S.


Nearest Walmart is several hundreds or thousands kilometers away



Well if you start walking now, you might get to a local Walmarts by release day.

And well as far as socializing, I guess I'm much different, I can socialize anywhere with anyone. I've even made some sales for Matrixgames Korsun Pocket although I don't own the game myself. Just from the information I have found here I was able to convince the potential customer that he would be happy with his purchase over RTW. hehe This was a man in his 30's and he couldn't decide and so I convinced him by just talking to him about his past gaming lifestyle that he would prefer the Matrixgames titles instead. Of course I will never know if he was happy or not, but, I figure if I seen him in the software dept once I'll see him again and find out. This was at Best Buy btw.

I bet when some of you guys go grocery shopping you are like zombies and just buy your groceries, pay and leave, man do you guys know that grocery stores are some of the best places to meet women? hehe I have no qualms about asking them which is a better product and why they like it. Heh, I guess after 20+ years of retail sales, one isn't afraid to talk to a stranger. ;)


(in reply to Arkady)
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RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/18/2005 11:55:43 PM   
GreenDestiny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: coralsaw


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

OKI値l probably get flamed for this one, so I値l hide it in this thread. I知 assuming that the WAW is going to cost the same amount for DD and retail. My question is why?



Possible answers:

  • Matrix can't/won't undercut their retail channel for obvious reasons
  • Target pricing: you pay as much as we think you can afford
  • Value pricing: you pay as much as we think you value the product
  • The retail channel is not available to you so you have no choice (eg. uncovered countries)


In any case, if it's a good game, the sale is all that matters. We should trust that Matrix has done their best to maximize the revenue inflows with their pricing.

/coralsaw



I'll say it's most likely
  • Matrix can't/won't undercut their retail channel for obvious reasons.
    Now I wonder how much the game would cost If it didn't go to retail 29.99 or 34.99 ?


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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/19/2005 12:19:41 AM   
    Joel Billings


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

    I'll say it's most likely
  • Matrix can't/won't undercut their retail channel for obvious reasons.
    Now I wonder how much the game would cost If it didn't go to retail 29.99 or 34.99 ?



  • Ok, let me throw gasoline on this fire. It would be $49.99 or more if it wasn't going to retail. Why? Because the considerably fewer copies we would be able to sell would have to be made up for with a higher price, even factoring in the higher margin per sale. The price is as low as it is because it's going to retail and the hope is we will get more than just serious wargamers as customers. We hope this is the right strategy for this game. There are very few wargames that we would consider candidates for this strategy. Here's some historical info (all games sold at retail in the nineties):

    Panzer General - over 250,000 units at full price (many more at lower prices)
    Steel Panthers - over 130,000 units at full price
    Most other SSI wargames (like Pac War, War in Russia, etc.) - 10,000 to 20,000 units at full price


    Yes, the retail/internet environment is different now, and GGWaW is not Panzer General or Steel Panthers, but there has always been a bigger world out there than just the world of hardcore wargamers. Some of it is interested in an occasional wargame.

    (in reply to GreenDestiny)
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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/19/2005 5:27:02 AM   
    GreenDestiny


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

    Ok, let me throw gasoline on this fire. It would be $49.99 or more if it wasn't going to retail. Why? Because the considerably fewer copies we would be able to sell would have to be made up for with a higher price, even factoring in the higher margin per sale. The price is as low as it is because it's going to retail and the hope is we will get more than just serious wargamers as customers. We hope this is the right strategy for this game. There are very few wargames that we would consider candidates for this strategy. Here's some historical info (all games sold at retail in the nineties):

    Panzer General - over 250,000 units at full price (many more at lower prices)
    Steel Panthers - over 130,000 units at full price
    Most other SSI wargames (like Pac War, War in Russia, etc.) - 10,000 to 20,000 units at full price


    Yes, the retail/internet environment is different now, and GGWaW is not Panzer General or Steel Panthers, but there has always been a bigger world out there than just the world of hardcore wargamers. Some of it is interested in an occasional wargame.



    Thanks for the numbers Joel. I hope that GGWaW sells as much as or more than PG at full price. I think it will, there痴 alot more gamers out there these days than in 96. It痴 also another good reason to buy the game at retail. If the sales are good then maybe Matrix will release more games to retail, and thus cheaper games for the customers.

    Again.. thanks for the response.




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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/19/2005 5:41:25 AM   
    ravinhood


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    Lol Joel I like your style and I wouldn't have believed that Panzer General outsold STEEL PANTHERS, people just don't know what is good anymore. ;)

    And I knew about the sales figures of the hardcore wargames through Dave Landrey, it amazed me that there was that little support for computer wargames at that time also, since board wargaming was still pretty popular then and I moved from it, I guess I expected the 100's of thousands to move from it also. Is the wargaming population really that small these days? I would have thought worldwide we would be in the at least middle 100's of thousands. I guess that 100 or so gamers at the wargame conventions I went to just looked like 100's of thousands to me across the map. lol Now I realize hey those guys came from all over the country, not just Dallas. lol

    One thing you phrase though is there is a much bigger world out there, now you guys wouldn't be thinking of jumping on the "milk wagon" now would you? We won't be seeing any Gary or Joel RTS games now will we? WILL WE? lol

    < Message edited by ravinhood -- 3/19/2005 5:44:37 AM >

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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/20/2005 10:15:57 PM   
    Zap


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    quote:

    I convinced him by just talking to him about his past gaming lifestyle that he would prefer the Matrixgames titles instead.


    Hi, ravinhood that was good work it is the grass roots effort that will sell more games. Being in the right place at the right time

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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/21/2005 8:50:57 AM   
    targul


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    This whole retail vs DD remains valueless. Matrix continues to believe the wandering customer will wander by and buy this game. NOT SO!!!!

    I just checked again at the local merchants which are Comp USA, EB, amd Best Buy. Not one of these have any intention of carrying the game on their shelves. EB Games has maybe 30 PC games on its shelf. Those are all old and out of date. They will special order but do not carry PC games other then MMORP and then only the most popular.
    Comp USA carries a decent selection of PC games but they do not carry war games anymore due to sells in the past. Best Buy also carries a goodly amount of games for the PC. But there policy is to wait until the game is released for at least a week to be sure it will be popular enough to sell.

    All told me they will special order but none will carry this game.

    I purchased a copy of HOI2 after special ordering it on line since this game was also not available.

    Anyway Matrix should stop playing ostrich and bring there head out of the sand. Retail will not work. Hasn't for years. Make it available by DD and allow customers to buy the box sets on line. It works.

    I live in a small town known as Los Angeles California so maybe if I lived in a bigger city they might put it on their shelves but there just are not enough population here to support it.




    (in reply to IceCreamSolider)
    Post #: 28
    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/21/2005 9:02:39 AM   
    Zap


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    quote:

    Make it available by DD and allow customers to buy the box sets on line

    It will be available for DD the same day it hits the stores. Look in Erik Rutkins post about digital download in this Forum.


    < Message edited by Zap -- 3/21/2005 9:12:00 AM >

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    RE: Reasons To Buy Retail! - 3/21/2005 9:23:36 AM   
    Pippin


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    quote:

    Anyway Matrix should stop playing ostrich and bring there head out of the sand. Retail will not work. Hasn't for years.


    Interesting.

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