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Use of Soviet Heavy Industry and Number of Soviet Artillery factories

 
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Use of Soviet Heavy Industry and Number of Soviet Artil... - 6/28/2001 12:33:00 AM   
matt.buttsworth

 

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From: Weimar, Germany
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In playing the 1941 game do people think it is a good idea to try and evacuate all Soviet heavy industry - Kiev, Dneprovosk, Kharkov? - or instead to try and evacuate more Soviet artillery factories, as in my experience, the Soviets seem to suffer from a chronic shortage of artillery in late 1941 and 42 and never seem to be able to fully resupply units with enough guns? Also, what do people think of the amount of Soviet artillery factories. Historically, they started with a number of guns - 80,000 according to one source - and later in the war, despite the loss of Western artillery factories, again had a huge number of guns. Would it be realistic to add more soviet artillery factories over time to the Soviet side to reflect this?

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- 6/28/2001 5:54:00 PM   
Ed Cogburn

 

Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/24/2000
From: Greeneville, Tennessee - GO VOLS!
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quote:

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth: In playing the 1941 game do people think it is a good idea to try and evacuate all Soviet heavy industry - Kiev, Dneprovosk, Kharkov? - or instead to try and evacuate more Soviet artillery factories, as in my experience, the Soviets seem to suffer from a chronic shortage of artillery in late 1941 and 42 and never seem to be able to fully resupply units with enough guns?
I can't remember at this moment how many slots are free in the Urals box, I think its still 9 (as in the original game, but there may have been recent changes). So you can only save 9 factories. My suggestion is to definitely save the HI at Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk (surely the people who live there us a short-hand name for their city!), then the recon at Stalino and 4 artillery factories. This leaves 2 slots left, one for the HI in Leningrad and the other for the HI in Moscow, if its clear they are about to fall. You're right about the artillery problem: Gary mentions this in the back of the manual.
quote:

Also, what do people think of the amount of Soviet artillery factories. Historically, they started with a number of guns - 80,000 according to one source - and later in the war, despite the loss of Western artillery factories, again had a huge number of guns. Would it be realistic to add more soviet artillery factories over time to the Soviet side to reflect this?
I don't know about the numbers but its not clear to me that the Soviets should get a whole bunch more. One problem is that Soviet units were often below their TO&E even later in the war, because of the sheer number of units being supplied. Does anyone remember the "Wargame Construction Kit: Tanks!"? Soviet units are almost always below full strength in that game, more so than I've ever seen in other games, but this game was made by Norm Koger of TOAW fame, so you can't immediately dismiss it as a mistake. The other, and perhaps more important, point is that Soviet artillery doctrine, tactics, and logistics was much poorer then Germany and downright primitive compared to the Western Allies. So when you hear of the high density of guns, "placed wheel-to-wheel", keep in mind they often accomplished what the Germans or (especially) Americans could do with fewer guns. My understanding is these problems were never completely solved by the end of the war. Since the game doesn't distinguish between artillery of the 2 sides (artillery is "generic" in WiR), perhaps a shortage on the Soviet side represents their less efficient use of artillery? Try skimming through this, it should be an eye-opener for some folks: http://tigertank.com/aslcrossroads/tactical/arty.htm

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