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Future operational level game? - 9/5/2004 7:59:40 AM   
Neilster


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I've been thinking that an operational level game with a HTTR/COTA type engine would be fantastic fun. Imagine France 40 or Barbarossa. The delegation function could remove much of the micro-managing (unless one likes it of course).

Then we could move our hands over the map in broad sweeps, like Adolf used to. "To the Channel coast Guderian...and don't spare the horses". Great fun, until the combined French/British counter-attack cuts off the armoured spearhead.

Cheers
Neilster
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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/9/2004 1:11:08 AM   
stall84

 

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I have long been a fan of "thinking BIG" with this game engine. I really hope they expand beyond the Corps level operations and move up to armygroups and big ol' maps of Europe.
I know it would begin to hog RAM and Mhz. But computers are getting better by the month, and the games must expand with them.
Also they could cut a few corners with a large scale map, such as deleting 'tracks', and having minor roads being the smallest roadway. Also by limiting the Battalion as the smallest divisible unit, you could prbly save some processor speed.
But, yes, indeed. Panther/Matrix THINK BIG!!!!

(in reply to Neilster)
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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/9/2004 1:52:39 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stall84
But, yes, indeed. Panther/Matrix THINK BIG!!!!


Hey, I'm all for thinking BIG. We just need the BIG budget required to put it into action.

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/9/2004 2:43:25 AM   
Bil H


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quote:

I really hope they expand beyond the Corps level operations and move up to armygroups and big ol' maps of Europe


..and that is where they will lose my interest.

Bil

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/9/2004 9:31:06 AM   
Neilster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Hey, I'm all for thinking BIG. We just need the BIG budget required to put it into action.


Why is that Dave? Do you mean you need more staff or that the operational scale is more expensive to research or something?

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/10/2004 12:15:10 AM   
stall84

 

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The PC market is saturated with squad and company level games (CMAK,CMBB,Squad Assault, Soldiers, etc, etc countless others).
Thats why I really think they should take this 'engine' to the next level.. Have the battalion be the lowest divisible unit (which is still giving the player a great deal of micro-management). But have maps the size of France, or Poland, or North Africa. And give control of whole armies, or even larger.
I know Im repeating myself. But, Panther/Matrix search the PC market far and wide... and try to find a game that plays out on this large scale Im speaking of. You wont be able to find one. I think you could really strike gold if you tried to develop one of the scale we are speaking of.

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/10/2004 11:25:13 PM   
JeF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stall84
Thats why I really think they should take this 'engine' to the next level.. Have the battalion be the lowest divisible unit (which is still giving the player a great deal of micro-management). But have maps the size of France, or Poland, or North Africa. And give control of whole armies, or even larger.


The market is also saturated by PzC games. They are at that scale : 1 unit = 1 Bn

Airborne Assault has a very dinstinct and interresting scale. With the units being companies, Panther has managed a near perfect mix between time, size, scale, details.

Dave once said that the units were too detailed to be able to expand to Bn level. HttR has a lot of german units broken down from Bn to Coy, and this is good. To go to a higher level, the game needs more abstraction (check the good job done by Command Operations in the forum below). It wouldn't be bad, but need a lot of changes. And we'll end up with a different game.

My 2 cents,

JeF.

< Message edited by JeF -- 9/10/2004 10:27:17 PM >


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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/11/2004 12:16:44 AM   
Makoto


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Yeah, I like HTTR the way it is, just gimme the Bulge, D-Day, North Africa, the Pacific, and Russia.

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(in reply to JeF)
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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/11/2004 9:35:49 AM   
Hentzau


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Since we're dreaming, I'd like to see something that combines a game like Airborne Assault with Combat Mission somehow.

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/11/2004 10:52:02 AM   
JeF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hentzau
Since we're dreaming, I'd like to see something that combines a game like Airborne Assault with Combat Mission somehow.


Hey !! It was supposed to be MY idea !

JeF.

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Post #: 10
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/11/2004 11:17:04 AM   
Neilster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeF

The market is also saturated by PzC games. They are at that scale : 1 unit = 1 Bn

Airborne Assault has a very dinstinct and interresting scale. With the units being companies, Panther has managed a near perfect mix between time, size, scale, details.

Dave once said that the units were too detailed to be able to expand to Bn level. HttR has a lot of german units broken down from Bn to Coy, and this is good. To go to a higher level, the game needs more abstraction (check the good job done by Command Operations in the forum below). It wouldn't be bad, but need a lot of changes. And we'll end up with a different game.

My 2 cents,

JeF.


I was thinking of a different game with a similar feel to HTTR/COTA.

I love playing Operational Art of War scenarios but, especially with the larger ones, deciding what to do with every unit gets to be a pain in the rear. It would be good to be able to delegate that to one's commanders and concentrate on the really vital sectors.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to JeF)
Post #: 11
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/11/2004 3:52:05 PM   
stall84

 

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quote:


I love playing Operational Art of War scenarios but, especially with the larger ones, deciding what to do with every unit gets to be a pain in the rear. It would be good to be able to delegate that to one's commanders and concentrate on the really vital sectors.

Cheers, Neilster



Precisely, It gets overwhelming and downright unrealistic to have 3 Divisions on the map, yet you have to tell each company what you want them to do. (Or you have the option to).
Im not suggesting something huge.. just bigger than what we have. Maybe the entire campaign of stalingrad on a map that is 200x200 miles.. or something like that.

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 12
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/13/2004 3:59:10 PM   
El Savior

 

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I would also love operational level game with AA engine. Smallest unit could be battalion or even regiment. Map could be like Poland, Benelux, France, USSR about 300x300 km or even more. And added campaign mode. That would be COOL!

And talking about combining with Combat Mission or other games... NOT! Give us operational level game with big European map and OOB's and that's it. Meanwhile I will play some HTTR more and little more... :D

< Message edited by El Savior -- 9/13/2004 4:34:27 PM >


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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/14/2004 4:53:53 PM   
Real and Simulated Wars

 

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Don't change the scale of the engine. It's perfect already. I would like to buy games with scenarios from Africa, Poland and Russia.
I love the HTTR engine, I find it perfect. But for some strange reason, airborne operations are not my cup of tea.

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Post #: 14
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/15/2004 3:58:33 AM   
Golf33

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chelco

Don't change the scale of the engine. It's perfect already. I would like to buy games with scenarios from Africa, Poland and Russia.
I love the HTTR engine, I find it perfect. But for some strange reason, airborne operations are not my cup of tea.

I think you'll like COTA then - the scenarios in Greece are almost all ground-only with the exception of a couple at Corinth involving a battalion or two of Fallschirmjäger.

Regards
33

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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/15/2004 5:11:22 AM   
Neilster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hentzau

Since we're dreaming, I'd like to see something that combines a game like Airborne Assault with Combat Mission somehow.


Why stop there? Lets combine World in Flames with the COTA engine and Combat Mission. Then, as Fuerer, we could launch the invasion of France, direct Rommel's 7th Panzer Division through the Ardennes and then fast move that Panzer III to a hull down position in the scattered trees.

That should keep us busy for about...oh...ten thousand years or so.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Hentzau)
Post #: 16
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/15/2004 5:14:53 AM   
Custer1961

 

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I would like to see this system taken to the Arctic Front of the Eastern Front. The part of the war in which Hitler's troops attempted to close off the Murmansk railroad and deal a setback to the Allied lend-lease supply line.

The front had a small number of divisions with both sides engaged in offensive and defensive operations, as well as, plenty of room for movement. It was not a continuous front.

(in reply to Golf33)
Post #: 17
RE: Future operational level game? - 9/15/2004 4:32:53 PM   
stall84

 

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If matrix/panther ever decide to make an North African campaign, they will likely have to expand the scale somewhat.
The whole premise behind desert warfare was the ability to make wide, sweeping movements. And a NA campaign would require larger maps to simulate this desert "freedom of movement"

(in reply to Custer1961)
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RE: Future operational level game? - 9/15/2004 5:22:19 PM   
Real and Simulated Wars

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Golf33
I think you'll like COTA then - the scenarios in Greece are almost all ground-only with the exception of a couple at Corinth involving a battalion or two of Fallschirmjäger.
Regards
33


Hi Golf!
Indeed, CoTA is my most anticipated title for this year.
The HTTR engine is perfect to simulate what it was designed for. Every time I read battles narrated in the Batallion/Regiment scale or I play other wargames at this scale I cannot avoid to question myself “how this would play in HTTR?” Of course there is an editor, but the units available in there are limited. Hopefully CoTA will bring me more units to play around with.
In a games market continuously pushing towards easy-to-play-crap, you guys have set a benchmark on simulating 20th century warfare. I know is difficult, but I wish you could expand the coverage to other fronts.
Awesome work.
Cheers,

(in reply to Golf33)
Post #: 19
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