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Amphib. defence - 9/3/2004 6:49:44 PM   
Flyboy

 

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I want to pick the brains of the more seasoned players on here . . . I'm about to start a PBEM game as the Germans against Canada at Juno Beach.

I've played the prepared scenario as Canada before, along with the rest of the D-Day scenarios, so I have a general idea of how the scenario creators approached their defensive doctrine, but if there are any tips or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

I'll only have 8500 points to work with, while my opponent (an actual officer in the Canadian army) will have 20,000. We'll both be limited to 10% arty, and he'll have 2 air sections, while I'll have none (to simulate allied air superiority on D-Day). I can expect vertical envelopment (paradrops and gliders) as well.

I'm planning on fixed defences on the beach (forts, mines, obstacles etc), coupled with mobile defence in the rear to meet and crush any breakthroughs/drop zones.

I also plan on creating several 'hedgehogs' (AT and Inf guns, MG-42s), on all likely breakout paths.

I figure a company of Tigers with Stug support should make for a good rapid reaction force, but that's a big ass map, so I'll need to take other measures as well . . .

Always looking for new ideas, and this is forum where I get most of them . . . so, if anyone cares to share how they'd approach the defence of Juno Beach, I'd love to have some suprises for my opponent.

< Message edited by Flyboy -- 9/3/2004 4:54:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/3/2004 8:59:33 PM   
Poopyhead

 

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I'm hardly a "more seasoned player", but here are some tips. I would advise that you spoil your opponents Decisive Victory by delaying and confounding him. Plan on holding just enough VH's to get a Draw.

Buy a group of Special Operations units and set them to infiltrate onto the beach area. The first couple of turns a tremendous artillery barrage will no doubt pound the beach. The Canadians land and suddenly find your units showing up in their midst. This should slow them somewhat.

Entrench a line of cheap units, even kuebelwagen, on any major roads. The entrenchments slow movement and cannot be cleared by engineers. Enough of these on a road and it becomes useless as an avenue of advance. Remember, delay at every opportunity.

As for your major plan, do the unexpected. A few mined hexes or fortifications can delay as well as a Maginot Line. Spread them around and defend in depth. Lots of cheap units can slow an advance, too. A unit slows to 50% whether it was shot at by a Tiger or a sniper. Speaking of Tigers, these are offensive weapons. Tank Destroyers are what you want. Cheaper and better defenders. I doubt if you will be able to counter-attack.

Several layers of interocked flak (quad 20 mm) should benefit you the most. If a ground attack plane takes as little as one point of damage it will be on its way back to England. This should also hamper gliders and paratroops. Once these guys land, hit them with mortars timed to strike at the end of their turn so that they are good and suppressed, and then advance and flame them with engineers or flametanks.

Save your big guns (or rockets) for several intense and decisive barrages. You're probably not going to win an artillery duel or rout the Canadians, but you can do a lot of damage at the worst possible time if you plan it well. Also, you might lay a large patch of smoke where you are not going to do anything, just to keep him wondering.

< Message edited by Poopyhead -- 9/3/2004 8:15:08 PM >

(in reply to Flyboy)
Post #: 2
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/3/2004 9:06:00 PM   
rbrunsman


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First off, I'd eschew the historical use of bunkers. In PBEM it only takes one smoke round to make your bunker useless.

Go with enough mines to keep your opponent guessing in the likely advance routes, don't make whole 'walls' of mines. Fear of mines is going to do more for you than the actual mines will.

Lots of armored cars with 20mm cannons in the backfield will make short work of any paratroops that land. If you can get to them BEFORE they get organized, you can cut them down easily.

There will be smoke everywhere so you need to be able to move. I wouldn't even bulk up on MG units, since once they are located, they are easy to eliminate. With the low vis you are likely to encounter you don't really need the huge 88mm guns of the Tigers. The cheaper PzIVhs have enough fire power to take out any armor that comes ashore. Also, get the panzers with lots of MGs. I know the PzIIIe has 3 MGs. That would be nice for tearing up infantry.

Stugs aren't that helpful because of the low rate of fire. You want lots of shots each turn. You might like a StuH42 though with the 105mm gun so you can get some splash damage.

The main thing to remember, this is PBEM, not a recreation of the landings of D-Day. Think in game terms, not how the defense worked historically. e.g. smoke is an absolute barrier to weapons fire in PBEM. That's a huge advantage to the attacker. On D-day, I don't think the troops landing on the beaches got too much solice in the fact that all those bullets flying through the smokey air weren't carefully aimed shots. In PBEM, they could have a picnic behind a smoke screen and you can't do anything about it with direct fire. Keep that in mind.

I suspect you will get your ass kicked with the point difference you have agreed to, but you can put up a valiant fight. Good luck!

rb

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to Flyboy)
Post #: 3
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/3/2004 10:39:20 PM   
Procrustes

 

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Just a question - would setting visability to a high number take care of a bit of that smoke problem? (Of course, then trees and everthing else become less of an impediment to LOS, too.)

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RE: Amphib. defence - 9/4/2004 12:51:28 AM   
Goblin


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Then he will just pop two smoke rounds. Stick to units that can move.


Goblin

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RE: Amphib. defence - 9/4/2004 8:00:56 AM   
Muzrub


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I dont think they had Tigers waiting at the beach..........

But I'm playing a game now with Italian troops against british invading sicily in PBEM.
I've got interlocking bunkers, rifle pits and anti tank guns and quite a few heavy machine gun positions.
I've used mines and barbwire to protect routes and to slow my opposition down.
The thing is, do you want to stop him on the beach of let him through into the rear?

I've chosen fight hard for the beach, but allow him through and use interlocking fire to slow or stop him.......

Mind you I only have 3000 points not 8500.
But thats cool.
His is double, but thats we play defend and attack.
And its no limit of arty or air, which we both like.
All you have to do is remember arty cant hold ground and neither can a bomber.

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 6
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/6/2004 8:11:27 PM   
Poopyhead

 

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I did a test of what one might get with 20,000 points. I could get 6 infantry companies all loaded in the amphibiuos transport (DUKW) with a platoon of amphibious Shermans and engineers in support of each company. Then six airborne companies with several extra 50 cal MG's to shoot up any light AFV's that might harass them. In artillery support, a cruiser and a destroyer flotilla to soften up the beach and two medium bomber sections to flatten the drop zones. Oh, and to round out the artillery...forty 4.2 inch mortars! Hooked to four ammo trucks on the smoke covered beach this should tear up several hundred hexes each turn and rout even the best defense force that I could imagine before you can say "cat in the hat". Let's hope that your opponent doesn't count beans like I do. As they say on South Park, just "Blame Canada!".

(in reply to Muzrub)
Post #: 7
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/6/2004 10:46:37 PM   
Veroporo

 

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That's going to be a huge fight! A regiment attacking :P Please, post some photos if you can.

For defending against 20k points. Do not expect to hold the beach. More important is to sunk as much of those landing crafts as possible. A few good cannons in good places have to do. Make sure you have some decent transport to move after few shots (and finally replace to first or second victory objectives.

Against paratroopers you'll need some anti-air and platoon sized fast security troops. How many is up to you. Those 20mm aa guns are good for anti DUKW too :)

And finally no defence is good enough without counterattack possibilities. A charge to beach against defendless (hopefully) mortars could help. But mostly when facing worse than 1-2 odds make sure you decide where to fight. A fast engament and run is better than a long where you can be bombarded to hell.

Have a fun game ;)

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Ei kannattais.

(in reply to Flyboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/6/2004 11:03:37 PM   
Goblin


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I recommend renegotiating the points also. You get 2 to 1 against the computer, and most humans do not need that margin on an attack. You have worse than two to one.

Try for 1.5 to 1.75 to 1 odds.


Goblin

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Post #: 9
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/6/2004 11:05:25 PM   
Riun T

 

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Sounds like a substantial assault force Poopy, why didn't u want anyof the other specialty tanks like AVRE churchhills,or flails?.
I've refered back to my copy of D-Day spearhead of invasion by R. W.Thompson and have played all the Allied beaches myself from SPWAW ver. 5.0 and 7.1 and I Quote the book as[Eisenhower,Montgomery and Bradley watched demonstrations of all that the Armour could achieve in opening the "Atlantic Wall". Conditions of the utmost realism had been created. Eisenhower was greatly impressed, and said he would make use of everything. Bradley seemed to show interest but did not commit himself. Montgomery, however believed that the 79th Armoured was a winner. HE went into detial exhaustivly,and following careful analysis and demonstration, made his choices.
The Flails,mine-sweeping sherman tanks,would lead the van of the british and Can. assaults, supported by flamethrower and DD swimming tanks.Engineers in armour would lead the way. BRADLEY decided to only avail himself to only a few DD tanks.

POOPY, Don't be a Bradley broaden you're horizons, I had an ammo truck follow a squad of AVRE's with that awesome Petard Spigot mortar and two flails go right up the beach by turn 4 I had 50% of the beach vic hexes. RT

(in reply to Poopyhead)
Post #: 10
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/7/2004 4:34:53 PM   
Poopyhead

 

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Yes, with 20k it's hard not to pick a winning force. If Flyboy's opponent is a trained officer, why does he get or want such an advantage?

(in reply to Riun T)
Post #: 11
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/9/2004 12:08:16 AM   
Flyboy

 

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We always play at least 2-1 for assault games. I played a 8500 point German force against his 20,000 point Soviet force in a FIBUA fight a couple of months back and held him to a draw. He just played a 8500 point Finnish force against my 20,000 Soviet force, and held me to a draw.

It's possible as a less-then-2-1 odds defender, even against a pro, but it keeps you on your toes.

As for my defence for this game (hope he doesn't read the board LOL), I went with 300 build points for the beach and roads, 850 points worth of 120mm mortars and 105mm tubes (we have a 10% arty rule, including air secs) to suppress his engineers and harass his unloading infantry, 6 AT pillboxes and a pile of cheap log rifle pits and MG pits on the beach, four inland 'hedgehogs' of 1 75mm AT gun, 2 MG 42s and 3 SS panzerschrecks each to greet him on likely break-out paths, a company of Panzer IVh, a platoon of flamepanzers, and a Tiger section as a mobile reaction force, a company of the heaviest armoured cars to defend likely dropzones, 2 20mm flakvring platoons, a rifle batallion, assorted ammo carriers, and a spec ops platoon to provide security for my AO unit (he always goes after it).

Took me friggin' forever to get the buy just right (it was a couple of days ago, so I hope I described it right here). I used 'captured' soviet hvy mortar batteries, instead of the section-sized units the Germans can buy.

How do I 'take pictures' of the game? I'd be happy to post screenshots of the most active engagements . . .

< Message edited by Flyboy -- 9/8/2004 10:08:50 PM >

(in reply to Poopyhead)
Post #: 12
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/9/2004 6:10:47 PM   
Poopyhead

 

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Cool! Sorry I've never taken a screen shot, but I remember that an earlier thread on this forum told how to do it. Do you happen to remember what your opponent had? I was afraid that his artillery might pound you into dog food.

Found it: Apparently you need Hypersnap-dx from http://www.hyperionics.com/

< Message edited by Poopyhead -- 9/9/2004 4:26:42 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/9/2004 7:37:40 PM   
Riun T

 

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Do u guys play to allow placing in buildings for big guns either than bunkers? in otherwords can u hide it where u want it with the assumption that u'd have time to buildup and conseal the buildings with tactical advantage IE. High buildings of stone.
Watched the Longest Day again, and really liked what the germans did to the defences of the cassino against the Free french commandos. RT

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Post #: 14
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/10/2004 7:15:09 AM   
Veroporo

 

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For screenshots try "print screen" button and then paste it to paint or similar program.

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RE: Amphib. defence - 9/10/2004 11:10:14 PM   
Flyboy

 

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We just got underway . . . I may be screwed though. The visibility for the game is very low - 3 hexes max, which makes it impossible for me sink his transports as they approach the shore, and means I have to basically let his stumble into my defensive positions, rather than setting up cross-fire and long-range coverage. I think this one is over before it started . . .

(in reply to Veroporo)
Post #: 16
RE: Amphib. defence - 9/11/2004 7:12:28 PM   
Riun T

 

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I just played a defence vs the Italians and the vis. was 2 I got lucky thou cause I set some units right up against the minefield and used "Z" fire to shoot into the areas where they detinated mines, sort of opp fired into the primary explosions which was their front line anyway,got lots of ricochets and shrapnel casualties and mad the units approching appear! in opp fire sequence. give er\ a try what ya got to lose besides a beach RT.

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Post #: 17
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