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Production - 7/7/2004 11:29:09 PM   
norsemanjs

 

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I've been looking at the Japanese production and have a couple of basic questions.

Example: Tokyo

900 resource, 110 manpower, 1,380 heavy ind, large stores of resources and oil.

sufficient resources exist to produce 1,125 resource points.
sufficient resources (10x) exist to produce manpower pts of 550 at a cost of 1,100 resource points.

For heavy industry to produce hvy ind pts. This will use 1,380 resource pts to produce supply and fuel. In addition 1380 resource points are required to produce the heavy ind pts themselves. For a total of 2,760 resource points required.

Shipyards of merchant and naval variety need about 1500 heavy ind pts to maintain production. (3x)

Aircraft engines: 120 Hitachi, 180 Nakajima, 20 Nissan & 20 Ishikawajima engines all requiring (18x) 6,120 Hvy Ind pts!!!

Airframe production for 8 vals, 5 Thora, 32 Hikory, 18 Sonia and 29 Ida is another 2,646 pts of Heavy Ind.

This works out to a grand total of 11,526 Hvy Ind pts a turn/day?

This is nearly 10 times the actual daily Hvy Ind pt production. Can this be right? Even at the start of the game only 10% of the Tokyo factories can be operational?

I hope I'm missing something. Obviously I can shutdown production of some transports and things but it is terribly out of balance. Oh, no I left out the armaments factory another 900 Hvy Ind pts!!

It would be great if at some time a production info screen could be set up so that each city could show the overall requirements of resources etc. We do have to figure out where and how much oil & resources to send to the various locations. I'd like to do this in as logical a way as possible.
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RE: Production - 7/7/2004 11:41:16 PM   
von Murrin


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Engine and airframe factories produce: number of factories + 1-30/30 p/ day. The actual number of engines and airframes produced multiplied by 18 per engine and 18 per engine mount on the airframe is your total HI used per day. You're making the same mistake on a/c production I did at first.

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RE: Production - 7/7/2004 11:43:04 PM   
von Murrin


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Also keep in mind that HI is a pool once built for the turn. For instance, HI in Osaka can be used to make up any shortfall in Tokyo and so on.

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Post #: 3
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:08:46 AM   
norsemanjs

 

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Aircraft Engine factories would then require (minimum) the number of HI ind pts per month rather than per day.

Example: size 80 Mitsubishi factory will produce (minimum if supplied) 80 engines per month.

80*18=1,440 Heavy Ind pts per month

which is 48 pts per day (1440/30)

Sounds a lot better. Also on the airframe side.

Thanks for the clarification.

(in reply to von Murrin)
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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:17:21 AM   
norsemanjs

 

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I understood that it is a pool for Heavy Ind.

But it sounds like the HI is used up pretty quickly making supply and fuel. Will there really be enough left over for industry? If you are converting resources and HI pts into supply and fuel daily. In Tokyo you only have a very small surplus of HI pts after supply and fuel production and I suspect that is true for the total Japanese economy.

How does the pool know how much HI pts to convert to supply and fuel vs industrial (air, navy, arm factories).

Or am I wrong about consuming HI pts for supplies and fuel production.

(in reply to von Murrin)
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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:22:17 AM   
Bliztk


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Yes but I have done some calculations and I get that Japanese Industry is short of all resources.
It needs a daily surplus at 7 Dec 41 of:

Resources 12220
Oil 4992,5

But is has a Heavy Industry surplus of 700 points,
Taking in account an average of 16 Engines/Planes per day per factory in the 1+(Random 30) formula, so there is not fixed, some days more production, other less.

Conquering the historical SRA gives you at maximum of 6250 Resources and 1800 Oil, taking all undamaged.

So the Industry of Japan, is a bit big for the resources it can conquer. Totally historical, of course

Maybe starting to enlarge the Repair Shipyards that not use HI, is a good idea

(in reply to von Murrin)
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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:25:54 AM   
Oznoyng

 

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Capturing Palembang gives 700 oil resource units that produce 4200 oil and 700 fuel per day (assuming no damage). Remember to multiply.

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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:28:26 AM   
von Murrin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norseman

I understood that it is a pool for Heavy Ind.

But it sounds like the HI is used up pretty quickly making supply and fuel. Will there really be enough left over for industry? If you are converting resources and HI pts into supply and fuel daily. In Tokyo you only have a very small surplus of HI pts after supply and fuel production and I suspect that is true for the total Japanese economy.

How does the pool know how much HI pts to convert to supply and fuel vs industrial (air, navy, arm factories).

Or am I wrong about consuming HI pts for supplies and fuel production.


Supplies and fuel are produced in addition to HI for production. They do not detract from the HI pool.

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Post #: 8
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:30:23 AM   
norsemanjs

 

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I thought that might be the case, but couldn't see it worded clearly in the manual.

That will make a big difference in my decision making.

Thanks

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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:42:34 AM   
Bliztk


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Yes, I have counted that.

Heavy Industry at the begining

13230 Points

That need 13230 Resource points, plus 13230 Oil Points for converting to Fuel and Supply
And need another 13230 Resource points, plus 26460 Oil points for gaining 13230 Heavy Industry points to the Industry.

So you need 26460 Resources and 39690 Oil points to fuel all the Industry.

At start you have 750 oil, and historical SRA can give you 6250x1,25 resources and 1800x6 oil a day **UNDAMAGED**

Actually the number is a bit less, beacuse to convert oil to fuel you need a size 1 port in hex, so you can discount aprox 2230 of oil, but you have a shortage

(in reply to norsemanjs)
Post #: 10
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:48:08 AM   
von Murrin


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Quick reference formulas:

1 Resource point = 1.25 Resources + 1 Supply
1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel
1 Manpower Point requires 10 Resources. Creates 5 Manpower
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil. Produces 1 HI added to HI Pool + 1.33 Fuel + 1 Supply
Aircraft and Engine Factories:
(# of factories + RN of 1-30)/30 = # Airframes/Engines per day. EG: (75 F4F-4 + 1-30)/30 = AVG of 3 Airframes per day
1 Airframe requires 18HI per engine needed EG: 1 G4M2 = 36HI
1 Engine requires 18HI
1 Vehicle/Armaments Factory Point requires 6 Heavy industry
1 Naval/Merchant Shipyard Point requires 3 Heavy Industry

_____________________________

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Post #: 11
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 12:57:40 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Quick reference formulas:

1 Resource point = 1.25 Resources + 1 Supply
1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel
1 Manpower Point requires 10 Resources. Creates 5 Manpower
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil. Produces 1 HI added to HI Pool + 1.33 Fuel + 1 Supply
Aircraft and Engine Factories:
(# of factories + RN of 1-30)/30 = # Airframes/Engines per day. EG: (75 F4F-4 + 1-30)/30 = AVG of 3 Airframes per day
1 Airframe requires 18HI per engine needed EG: 1 G4M2 = 36HI
1 Engine requires 18HI
1 Vehicle/Armaments Factory Point requires 6 Heavy industry
1 Naval/Merchant Shipyard Point requires 3 Heavy Industry


What's the difference here??? Which is it? 1 oil or 2 oil???

1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil.

(in reply to von Murrin)
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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 1:01:44 AM   
Bliztk


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I think the cost is 3 oil and 2 resource, that gives you 1 HI point and 1,33 fuel plus 1 supply point.

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Post #: 13
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 1:08:55 AM   
pasternakski


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What is needed is a comprehensive, graphic representation of all these production interactions along the lines of what was done in Imperialism, the Civ games, Colonization, and others. It need not be printed, just offered as a .pdf or .jpg so that the players have access to it.

(in reply to Bliztk)
Post #: 14
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 1:44:52 AM   
Point Luck

 

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Question

If you leave the default settings for production with the auto setting for expansion on. what impact will that have to IJ through the course of the game.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 15
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 2:57:23 AM   
von Murrin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Quick reference formulas:

1 Resource point = 1.25 Resources + 1 Supply
1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel
1 Manpower Point requires 10 Resources. Creates 5 Manpower
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil. Produces 1 HI added to HI Pool + 1.33 Fuel + 1 Supply
Aircraft and Engine Factories:
(# of factories + RN of 1-30)/30 = # Airframes/Engines per day. EG: (75 F4F-4 + 1-30)/30 = AVG of 3 Airframes per day
1 Airframe requires 18HI per engine needed EG: 1 G4M2 = 36HI
1 Engine requires 18HI
1 Vehicle/Armaments Factory Point requires 6 Heavy industry
1 Naval/Merchant Shipyard Point requires 3 Heavy Industry


What's the difference here??? Which is it? 1 oil or 2 oil???

1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil.


1. 1Res. + 2Oil per HI point in the hex to operate.
2. 1Res. + 1Oil spent to add an HI point to add said point to the HI pool.

The first is like the 20k supply needed for a\c replacements. It just needs to be there. The second is actually spent to add the HI to the HI pool.

< Message edited by von Murrin -- 7/7/2004 6:57:50 PM >


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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 8:11:17 AM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Quick reference formulas:

1 Resource point = 1.25 Resources + 1 Supply
1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel
1 Manpower Point requires 10 Resources. Creates 5 Manpower
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate.
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 1 Oil. Produces 1 HI added to HI Pool + 1.33 Fuel + 1 Supply
Aircraft and Engine Factories:
(# of factories + RN of 1-30)/30 = # Airframes/Engines per day. EG: (75 F4F-4 + 1-30)/30 = AVG of 3 Airframes per day
1 Airframe requires 18HI per engine needed EG: 1 G4M2 = 36HI
1 Engine requires 18HI
1 Vehicle/Armaments Factory Point requires 6 Heavy industry
1 Naval/Merchant Shipyard Point requires 3 Heavy Industry


Guys. I have been studying the Japanese production heavily and been asking questions for two weeks now. The manual is right and wrong in some production instances.. Here's how it goes - the beta's / designers can correct me if I'm wrong...

1 Resource point = 1.25 Resources (round down) + 1 Supply
1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel
1 Manpower Point requires 10 Resources per point or none will operate.
Consumes 10 Resources per point. Creates 4 Manpower Point per point
1 Heavy Industry Point requires 1 Resource + 2 Oil in the hex to operate. [No consumption here]
1 Heavy Industry Point consumes 1 Resource + 1 Oil.
Produces 1 HI added to HI Pool + 1.5 Fuel + 1 Supply

Aircraft and Engine Factories: These production size is per month / not per day

Engines: If HI available equal to engine factory size, then engines CAN be produced.
# of factory (each factory at each location is done separately) + RN (1-30) / 30 (round down).
Consumes 18 HI per engine built.

Airframe: No HI requirement
# of factory (each factory at each location is done separately) + RN (1-30) / 30 (round down).
Consumes 18 HI per engine needed on aircraft + # of engines [So for a G3M Nell it will cost you 36 HI
+ 2 Mitsubishi engines (another 36 HI)

1 Vehicle/Armaments Factory Point requires 6 Heavy industry per point or none will be produced
Consumes 6 HI per point and produces 1 appropriate point
1 Naval/Merchant Shipyard Point consumes 3 HI
Repair Yards produce repair points equal to their size daily (for free). Can store up to 4x their size


As you can see it is possibly for the smaller factories (engine & Aircraft below 10) to never produce a single product. It probably won't happen that way, but it could. These small factories are cheap and easy to enlarge so do it. I recommend at least a size 20 factory - that way you should produce 2 items every 3 days.

If you have more questions just ask and I'll try to answer them.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 7/8/2004 6:12:05 AM >

(in reply to von Murrin)
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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 8:40:50 AM   
von Murrin


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Nice job. The HI->Fuel and Resources->Manpower are particularly enlightening.

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RE: Production - 7/8/2004 10:48:45 AM   
Rainerle

 

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Hi,
so unlike BTR there are no different airframe factories and assembling factories, just engines and planes?

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 19
RE: Production - 7/8/2004 1:27:23 PM   
pry


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quote:

1 Oil Point = 6 Oil + 1 Fuel


X

This is something most folks overlook when discussing production but there are actually 2 oil point formulas to remember.

Oil Point (size 1 port or greater) = 6 oil + 1 fuel
Oil Point (size 0 port) = 6 oil + 0 fuel

No fuel is created in a oil center with size 0 port only the oil...

Mandalay by way of example will produce each turn, (50 oil points)
300 oil
0 fuel

Rangoon will produce each turn (50 oil points)
300 oil
50 fuel

_____________________________


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