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you know what I'd love to see... - 3/4/2004 12:26:55 AM   
Iskandar

 

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as perhaps a sequal or expansion pack? A more structured campaign environment. Anyone ever played the original Mechwarrior?

Would love to run a mercenary outfit just like that.

Great game for its time.
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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/4/2004 3:30:14 AM   
william19k


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quote:

Anyone ever played the original Mechwarrior?

Would love to run a mercenary outfit just like that.


My response to this is, "why can't you?" I mean its mostly a roleplay aspect don't you think? In the mechwarrior game you built up your lance and fought missions for money and mechs. I know there was a story line but couldn't you just make one up for your squad as you go? I do this for my 2 squads.

I actually think this game is Ideal for that. I mean each squad can have 8 different pilots of various ranks, and each squad can have 12 titans. Thats 36 titans and 24 pilots to a "company" granted you can't use all of them at once, but you can use 2 squads at once. 16 titans and 16 pilots on one team. Thats alot of roleplay potential.

I think one thing that would help though is perhaps a random mission generator. I mean you can already get random maps and random enemies with great degrees of variance, but usually unless you are in a campaign your missions are just defeat all enemies. I know with the map editor you can make up alot of missions and perhaps someone could come up with a bunch of generic missions in a pack. I dont know if you cuold set up a button for random missions but its an idea.

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William19k

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/4/2004 1:14:34 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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Actually each squad can have up to 16 titans, depending on its mechanic. And a "company" is 4 squads, not 3

< Message edited by Thorgrim -- 3/4/2004 11:50:35 AM >


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Iceman

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/4/2004 4:44:15 PM   
william19k


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quote:

Actually each squad can have up to 16 titans, depending on its mechanic. And a "company" is 4 squads, not 3


Then its actually better than I thought!

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William19k

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/4/2004 11:03:15 PM   
rosary

 

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You can use your squad to play through the Multiplayer missions (alone). This is much like you described. These have various storylines and can be played separately or in conjunction with the campaigns and single missions while throwing in as many random missions as you like. TOS:WS has a vast and seemingly unlimited universe in which to play or roleplay your squads.

You may even start a campaign with squad 1 and decide to start over and replay the entire campaign using squad 2,3 or 4. Then trade your pilots around as you like and build a super-squad. Then replay the campaigns again. The campaigns will even get harder depending upon what you chose when picking your active team members. Anyone trying to play Savannah Map 1 using 3 Assaults will see what I mean.

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 1:06:10 AM   
Shadow Paladin


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Is it possible for the campaigns to branch? If you win you get to assault the enemies main camp, if you lose you have to fight a rearguard action as your main assault force scampers over a bridge to safety or some such. Just in the interests of making a story line that can see you fail as well as prosper

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 2:02:42 AM   
Sleeping_Dragon


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The editor currently doesn't have the ability to handle a branching campaign.

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 2:14:50 AM   
Shadow Paladin


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Does anybody here think it is worth having the option to make campaigns branching, if it is not too difficult to code that is? I personally would much prefer the being able to fight different missions if I badly lose a battle.

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"What could be more exciting than your enemies in front of you and death watching your back" - Unknown veteran to the 59th Shadow Hawks AT squadron

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 11:20:14 AM   
Thorgrim

 

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It was deemed not worth it, because basically the map designer would have to be making maps that could actually never see any use.
Besides, if you're utterly defeated, no rearguard duty for you (or any other duty for that matter), right?

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Iceman

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 6:43:23 PM   
Shadow Paladin


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Well utterly defeated teams, if fully grown, will still have at best 8 titans in reserve and perhaps a small handful of jocks who survived by ejecting. I cannot see no reason why (in a roleplay sense) the minor engineers and technicians (very unlikely the team does all its own repairs without help in the middle of a warzone) who have a basic knowledge of the Titans could not take over as jocks, afterall if you were about to be killed would you not take a gamble and pilot a warmachine instead of running away on foot.

The map designer would be making maps that would never be used...

No I agree that is a very good point why not to include the ability to make branching campaigns but I prefer and good solid answer to a good solid excuse. How about upgrade the map designer to create random maps, perhaps have a map saving device in the main game to if the designer comes across a nice random map he could use, thus being able to create terrain that is not mission/campaign specific.

Example

101st Tac Command are assaulting the Rebels on planet Yig.

Both sides would have a fortress/basecamp area that would have to be designed.

You would then have 3 campaign specific missions that would also need to be designed.

The rest of the maps could be completely random, search and destroy or reach objective maps that are made my a random terrain generator. Only altering the maps would need are start positions (putting both sides close at the beginning of a patrol mission) and exit point (rearguard mission) and how much tonnage each side could use. Maybe a moving base untt could be made for such a mission.

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"What could be more exciting than your enemies in front of you and death watching your back" - Unknown veteran to the 59th Shadow Hawks AT squadron

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/5/2004 11:47:18 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow Paladin

Well utterly defeated teams, if fully grown, will still have at best 8 titans in reserve and perhaps a small handful of jocks who survived by ejecting. I cannot see no reason why (in a roleplay sense) the minor engineers and technicians (very unlikely the team does all its own repairs without help in the middle of a warzone) who have a basic knowledge of the Titans could not take over as jocks, afterall if you were about to be killed would you not take a gamble and pilot a warmachine instead of running away on foot.


8 titans in reserve means a huge upkeep...
And there's this thing called neural sense, and these devices called neural bridges, to command medium+ titans. Ever heard of them? Engineers and technicians don't necessarily have neural sense as a job requirement. Or being able to pilot a titan.
In a roleplay sense, it's the squad's mechanic that does all the work, but I guess he can get some extra help. Notice though that that's not included in the suqad's budget

quote:


The map designer would be making maps that would never be used...

No I agree that is a very good point why not to include the ability to make branching campaigns but I prefer and good solid answer to a good solid excuse.


Well, it's an excuse to you.

quote:


How about upgrade the map designer to create random maps, perhaps have a map saving device in the main game to if the designer comes across a nice random map he could use, thus being able to create terrain that is not mission/campaign specific.


And how do you know that that's not in already, or in the works? As a matter of fact...
The full map editor has planty more features than the release version. If you can wait just a little more, you'll see.

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Iceman

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 5:45:57 AM   
Sleeping_Dragon


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I support the idea of branching campaigns.

As far as the campaign designer making maps that could potentially never be played; that should be a designer's call. But for the amount of work that would be put into the editor to accomidate it, would it be worth the payoff? How many campaign designers would opt to make 'dead maps'. I don't know. I would, but in limited situations. For now I personally think I'd rather have the designer's working on some things that are yielding a better 'fun factor' vs. 'amount of work required to implement' that would be more commonly used.

There are also questions reguarding what happens when a squad gets decimated, not by just losing titans but by losing jocks; there would be a rise in the number of situations where the squad would have to stop mid-campaign and significantly rebuild even to continue on the 'losing branch' of the campagin. This isn't a huge problem currently as MOST missions will not save squad data unless you win, if you lose, the squad just acts as nothing ever happened; back to square one. There's also a big difference between random maps and campaigns in that you, the player. actively choose the difficulty with random maps, you get to fight at your 'comfort level'... if it's too hard it's your fault Campaigns on the other hand represents someone else 'idea' of difficulty and you're forced into that without the free 'do-over' that most campaign's currently provide. People seem to have quite a range on making the judgement as to what exactly makes a mission easy/average/hard/sucidial.

My $.02 if you have change for a dime.

< Message edited by Sleeping_Dragon -- 3/5/2004 10:51:03 PM >


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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 7:20:47 AM   
aquietfrog


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I also like the idea of branching campaigns... I think branching campaigns would fit nicely for missions with multiple objectives. Wherein the branching of the campaign would depend on whether the secondary objective is met or not... utter defeat would mean all the objectives were not met and your squad was trashed - that would me you have to start over...

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 1:40:52 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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Think how many maps would be needed for a 7 map campaign that would branch for victory and defeat. First map branches to 2, those 2 to 4, and so on. Is that really worth it? Wouldn't you at some point just use the exact same map with different texts? Would that add anything relevant to the existing scheme?
Multiple objectives, same deal. Besides, secondary objectives are just that, secondary. It doesn't mean things change if you accomplish them but not the main objective of the mission.

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Iceman

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 4:13:37 PM   
Shadow Paladin


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quote:



ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

8 titans in reserve means a huge upkeep...
And there's this thing called neural sense, and these devices called neural bridges, to command medium+ titans. Ever heard of them? Engineers and technicians don't necessarily have neural sense as a job requirement. Or being able to pilot a titan.

In a roleplay sense, it's the squad's mechanic that does all the work, but I guess he can get some extra help. Notice though that that's not included in the suqad's budget


The titans in reserve would not usually be all Medium, Heavy or Assaults. A decent squad leader would leave a few Recons and Lights in there incase a jock is killed and a replacement needs hiring. Instead of buying a new Titan these ones would be already to go, tweaked to the way the player likes them. As for cost these Titans are the least expensive, and may perhaps even be salvaged from the field of battle not so long ago. Thus useable by the techs, etc.

Actually it is in the squad's budget. The leader and the mech cost more than the buisness jock. This in roleplay terms would simply mean the techs and engineers for the mech jock and whatever staff the leader would need (promoter, administrator, etc) A pure bred warrior jock would also be expensive due to the amount of time and resources spent on having higher combat abilities than the 3 jobbed jocks. The buiness jock would merely be looking through catalogues or wandering around shops buying the required items and making sure it gets dropped off in the right place.

quote:

Well, it's an excuse to you.


No an excuse for you. Seems everybody else likes this idea other than you, though we still have to hear from the Creators as to what they would think about making the map editor generate random maps that can be altered so that the idea of branching campaign play would be made viable and easier if implemented.

quote:

And how do you know that that's not in already, or in the works? As a matter of fact...
The full map editor has planty more features than the release version. If you can wait just a little more, you'll see.


How would I know, I do not pester those who create all the wonderful add-ons for this wonderful game. I prefer to spend my time creating ideas that they could use if they see fit. If they do not announce what they are doing of course people will suggest things that they might already be working on, that's just the way it pans out.

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"What could be more exciting than your enemies in front of you and death watching your back" - Unknown veteran to the 59th Shadow Hawks AT squadron

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 4:25:34 PM   
Shadow Paladin


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quote:



ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

Think how many maps would be needed for a 7 map campaign that would branch for victory and defeat. First map branches to 2, those 2 to 4, and so on. Is that really worth it? Wouldn't you at some point just use the exact same map with different texts? Would that add anything relevant to the existing scheme?


Well surely if it is worth it would be up to the designer, nobody is forcing them to make a branching campaign. You would perhaps use the same maps say if you lose, then win to get back to where you should be in the campaign. It all depends on how the designer decides the story line should go. With a random map generator then you would not come across this. As it is no, but there again as it is you do not get the choice... yet if ever.

quote:

Multiple objectives, same deal. Besides, secondary objectives are just that, secondary. It doesn't mean things change if you accomplish them but not the main objective of the mission.


Well they could if you recieved a Titan as salvage for doing it or perhaps extra money. In any campaign or even random game that would be worth it as it gives the team extra money which is never a bad thing.

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"What could be more exciting than your enemies in front of you and death watching your back" - Unknown veteran to the 59th Shadow Hawks AT squadron

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 4:58:22 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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In TOS terms branching campaigns are in LOS but not very high on our list of targets to lock.

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 7:02:38 PM   
cyavhn

 

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fires off a LRM9 with a 02% to hit...

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RE: you know what I'd love to see... - 3/6/2004 8:53:31 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow Paladin
The titans in reserve would not usually be all Medium, Heavy or Assaults. A decent squad leader would leave a few Recons and Lights in there incase a jock is killed and a replacement needs hiring. Instead of buying a new Titan these ones would be already to go, tweaked to the way the player likes them. As for cost these Titans are the least expensive, and may perhaps even be salvaged from the field of battle not so long ago. Thus useable by the techs, etc.


Techs don't necessarily have the Reaction and Dexterity to pilot stick-controlled titans either. Besides, I'm sure there's jeeps that are much easier and safer for a tech to pilot, a good squad leader would make sure of that.

quote:


Actually it is in the squad's budget. The leader and the mech cost more than the buisness jock. This in roleplay terms would simply mean the techs and engineers for the mech jock and whatever staff the leader would need (promoter, administrator, etc) A pure bred warrior jock would also be expensive due to the amount of time and resources spent on having higher combat abilities than the 3 jobbed jocks. The buiness jock would merely be looking through catalogues or wandering around shops buying the required items and making sure it gets dropped off in the right place.


Actually it's not. The manager "costs" less because of his business skill. What it means is that he has the knowledge in administration to make *his* upkeep lower. Upkeep has nothing to do with recruitment cost. Looking through catalogues?!

quote:

No an excuse for you. Seems everybody else likes this idea other than you, though we still have to hear from the Creators as to what they would think about making the map editor generate random maps that can be altered so that the idea of branching campaign play would be made viable and easier if implemented.


I meant that if you were saying it was an excuse, it's your prerrogative. But it doesn't mean it's true. You can think whatever you want of course.
And where exactly did I say I don't like it? You're putting words in my mouth. What I said was because this issue had already been discussed, with the Kreators, and it was put on hold. And FYI, *I* proposed a map saving feature in the battle module, which was implemented but you don't have access to it, and it will be replaced by a random generator in the map editor soon. That's why I said you should wait a little.
So what was that you were saying again? Please, talk about what you know. And please read carefully what I write, and don't make up things.

quote:

How would I know, I do not pester those who create all the wonderful add-ons for this wonderful game. I prefer to spend my time creating ideas that they could use if they see fit. If they do not announce what they are doing of course people will suggest things that they might already be working on, that's just the way it pans out.


Yes, that's why I was giving you hints. I can't of course divulge information that's not supposed to come out to the public. Still, you need to read.
But yes, why do I bother?

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Iceman

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